Tracy, Ricky, Damien and Phil review a diverse set of short films made in various metaverse and open world games including World of Warcraft, Elite Dangerous, Minecraft and Second Life.
Full notes for this episode are available at:
Tracy, Ricky, Damien and Phil review a diverse set of short films made in various metaverse and open world games including World of Warcraft, Elite Dangerous, Minecraft and Second Life.
Full notes for this episode are available at:
Podcast 6.2 Machinima Films
Tracy, Ricky, Damien and Phil review a diverse set of short films made in various metaverse and open world games including World of Warcraft, Elite Dangerous, Minecraft and Second Life.
machinima, film, game, minecraft, called, world, character, warcraft, metaverse, people, life, ricky, play, watch, released, story, felt, danish, molotov, thought
Damien Valentine, Ricky Grove, ANFSCM, Tracy Harwood, Phil Rice
And Now for Something Completely Machinima
Tracy Harwood 00:11
Welcome to the And Now for Something Completely Machinima podcast. I'm Tracy Harwood and I'm the lead co-producer for this episode of the show working with Ricky Grove. So here I'm joined with Ricky.
Ricky Grove 00:27
Tracy Harwood 00:28
Phil Rice 00:29
Tracy Harwood 00:32
Damian, of course.
Damien Valentine 00:34
Tracy Harwood 00:36
And its nice to see you guys again. So in the first section of this month's podcast, we discussed some game experiences in the metaverse having been inspired by Captain Tom's journey around the garden. Oh, hang on a minute. Not the right day to be saying that, of course, Captain Grim's journey through Classic World of Warcraft. In this section, we're going to reflect on some machinima films we've seen that loosely relate to the themes we feel are most relevant. But before we dive into that, Phil, do you want to remind folks how they can connect with us, please?
Phil Rice 01:13
Yes, you can visit our website at completelymachinima.com. There's a button at the top labeled talk, you click that it shows you all the methods that you can use to get in touch with us, the first of which is email, talk at completelymachinima.com. You can send us a text message, you can send us a voice message. And if you use the voice message option, it's through a service called reverb dot chat. You basically go there, you record your message, and then you email us a link to it and we'll play it back and comment on it on the air. You know if it's an appropriate message. And finally, there's discord, which is where you can stock up on crickets if you're going fishing this weekend. Or you could you could text and interact with us there. That'd be great, too.
Tracy Harwood 02:00
Super. Okay, so let's start with some WOW mission. And then, Ricky, do you want to kick us off with this one?
Ricky Grove 02:07
Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Um, you know, I, I gotta be honest with you. I never liked World of Warcraft machinima. And I, it's your encouragement to think about World of Warcraft machinima. Because of it being a sort of open world game. It made me think about why I don't like it. And I realized, it has to do with some of my acting, and training. And that one of the things I came across while I was studying acting, and the history of acting, and film, and all of that was this tradition that was very British, of taking history and turning it into classes in England. For example, the upper class would speak sort of London English, and the lower classes would all speak Cockney. I mean, look at the like, like BBC productions of things that are said in the medieval times or seeing things that were said in Rome, ancient Rome, you'd have these these low class characters quite well. Well, you got what do you know there mate... And Monty Python did a wonderful job of parodying all of that. So I realized what the problem was, whenever I watched the World of Warcraft machinima, I was really seeing really badly done Monty Python. You know what I mean? Because you, you get the you get the orc. Well, we're going to go out there. And I just hated that. I just hated that. And so that's the reason why I didn't watch much of World of Warcraft. But now that I know that that's a problem with my thinking. Or at least that's the way I think. I decided to really work hard and push that all aside and just watch the films for what they are. And I picked some that I liked a lot. And part of my pics came from watching a beautiful YouTube video called The 5 Best World of Warcraft Machinimas I've Ever Seen by Nixxium N i x x i o m. He's a World of Warcraft creator himself. Excuse me in this film, he has views and remembers his five favorite World of Warcraft films. It is a very personal, but it's a very enjoyable list. And that's what's got me started again.
Ricky Grove 04:44
And one of the films that I chose was Edge of Remorse. It was by Jason Choi, who was a very important machinima filmmaker for a brief period of time. He was the guy that got me in interested in machinima. He was on machinima.com and put in a request in one of the forum feeds for anybody who is in LA who wanted to work on a film. I responded got together with him. And we did to film three films together. I did the sound for Edge of Remorse, which was one of my favorite experiences ever because Jason is a very detail oriented person. And he really wanted the sound to be important and the music to be an important part of the film. So that was, so personally I was really interested in but rewatching it again, I found it to be just a fascinating and interesting portrait, a very romantic portrait a very, I don't know how to describe it a kind of very plush and stylized portrait. But the but but done very professionally, the film was a little mini masterpiece. And I think in a way, Jason was one of those machinima directors who used machinima to get to become a professional videographer, or game creator. And that's what he does now. Edge of remorse, resilience was released in 2006. It was created for Xfire Summer Movie Contest. And he shot and mastered it and 720 P, high definition using real time footage in World of Warcraft. Now the interesting thing I'd forgotten about World of Warcraft, is that you don't you shoot it very differently. You shoot the World of Warcraft, landscape in places a camera moves separately from the characters. The character animation in the character interaction is all done in green screen in a special character... I can't remember the name of the the app that they use. It's a world of warcraft model viewer, I think, yeah, right against against a green screen. And then you composite those and After Effects. So it's a very different workflow than most other machinima, because you have to, you're using two separate places to film to do the film. So I was just blown away again, by how effectively he was able to composite everything, and make such a successful and interesting and empathetic film, with characters who are very broad and, and very sort of blocky, you know, because in 2006, the rendering of world Warcraft is a little different than today. It won the 2006 Machinima Film Festival, for best direction in visual design. It won the Xfire World of Warcraft Summer Movie Contest for Best Overall film and plays first place in the drama action category. And I think I was his calling card to move on to professional work, which he does now. He works in LA as a technical director for game engine production at Frame Machine, and he does no more machinima at all. If you go to his portfolio on on Vimeo, you'll see him doing machinima like stuff, but it's not machinima. And I thought that it reminded me that that's one of the things that I think happened to machinima is the sort of brain drain, talent drain. Because hardly anybody who moved on from machinima into the professional world came back to machinima to do anything, which I found very strange. Because why wouldn't you if you had this great community that supports you, and you can make films very fast, why wouldn't you want to come back and continue to make some other films, but that never happened? Paul Marino moved out and went on to a professional world. Jason Choi moved on to the professional world. Now Hey, I don't blame them. They do what they want to do if they're being working in a game world is very involving. I mean, sometimes it's 18 hour days, 16 hour days. So I understand that, but I just wanted to make that observation that they, they never come back once they leave. So anyway, I love this film. And I was wondering whether you guys got a chance to watch it again.
Tracy Harwood 09:21
Absolutely. I mean, I haven't seen that for years until you till you put that on the slate. And, and I was kind of kind of intrigued by some of your first comments where you were going there about some accents and what have you because there's no voice acting in this one at all. So it was kind of introductory to hear you talk about that. But you know, what comes over for me is the is the outstanding quality of the soundscape design I know we've talked about that are about, you know, in relation to several machinimas that we've reviewed over the past six months, it's down to the soundscape. And I think this is another example of the soundscape driving it beautiful quality. The music is spot on with it. And it drives that story for me it did anyway. So yeah, that was my observation on it.
Damien Valentine 10:11
For me, I'm the when it was, I did watch it again today just to refresh my memory, remembering what a great film it was. And it's still, even though the visuals are dated now, because obviously graphics technologies have evolved, it still holds up really well. And one of the things that I remembered when I watched originally was back when it was released, there was this thing in the community where people are saying, the only emotion you're going to get from any machinima or film is laughter, when in the humor videos like Red versus Blue, and so on. But this is a very powerful story told with absolutely no dialogue. But you don't need it to follow exactly what's happening and to feel the emotions of what's happened to these three characters and how they changed and grown apart. And what happens in in the film, which, if you haven't seen it, I don't want to give away any spoilers, but it gets, it really gets you emotionally and back then people said it's not possible. It's just just humor. And it's the same with video games, as people were saying, you'll never get any emotional reaction from any video game you play. It's just you just play it and have fun, but it's not going to tell a story that makes you feel happy or sad or sympathetic towards the characters because just not possible. Well, I think Jason proved very well with this film that it is very possible just to have to do it the right way.
Tracy Harwood 11:41
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Phil?
Phil Rice 11:48
Yeah, sorry. had a little bit of delay there. Alright, so a number of things. Yeah, it's wonderful to experience this film again. I remember being for sorry for the pun, but I remember being wowed by it. When it came out. Yeah, Jason was was was quite a force to be reckoned with and machinima misses someone of his, his skill. Yeah, this the soundscape? Absolutely, Tracy, you're right. I think a great illustration of that is to do a side by side of this film, which was, you know, using the technology that was available for that and the World of Warcraft film that Hugh Hancock did, several years later. And he did all kinds of hacking, and they, they had mo capped fight animations in this thing. I mean, in terms of what they could achieve with what the characters did, there's like, no comparison. Hugh's film just blows away most World of Warcraft films in terms of, you've never seen characters move like that in World of Warcraft, you know. And yet, it doesn't have the same wow factor or punch as the significantly older Edge of Remorse. And the sound is a big part of that. I did, I had the privilege to do sound for one of Hugh's big movies, and I wish that he would have kept me engaged. Because, yeah, that sounds really lacking. And it makes such a big difference. Ricky, you did the sound on that. Is that right? Yeah.
Ricky Grove 13:37
Yes, I did, yeah
Phil Rice 13:37
This was some of your best work and and, you know, the, one of the reasons Jason was was so impressive when he when he was in the machinima community. I mean, I kind of butted heads with each other because we had, that was when the whole machinima vs. animation debate was going on. And he just ended up on the other side of that argument about that word - its stupid, stupid argument. Yeah. So we kind of, you know, and he was he's very, he's a confident person. His personality is very strong. He's very confident itself. And he should be. He's extremely talented. But he had already shown the machcinima world that he could blow our minds. And it was with his previous film, Only The Strong Survive, which Ricky was one of the main actors in that and also, I believe was involved in the sound on that. Yeah. And in in the Tom Jantol interview, from last month, Tom talks about the Max Payne game being the one that really blew his mind. And I have to think that he saw that movie, as part of that. Wow, look what this game can do. Look how cinematic it can be. Yeah. So Jason had already shown he could do that but here is one where, like Ricky said, this really wasn't a game known for cinematic wow. It just really wasn't. It was a game that a lot of people loved was a huge fan base. There were some very good films that were made. But that wasn't the hallmark of most wow machinima. And yeah, Jason just just took it to a whole nother level. Okay, with me I'm done.
Tracy Harwood 15:15
Yeah. Okay. Well, you've got another film as well.
Ricky Grove 15:21
Yes, I wanted to make a quick mention that the video The 5 Best World Warcraft Machinima by Nixxiom is well worth watching because his commentary is very funny and also very apt. And he mentions a filmmaker in there that I'd forgotten about. Martin Falch. He was one of the first filmmakers he's from Denmark. And he created a feature length films, a trilogy called The Tales of the Past Trilogy, and another shorter feature length movie called Divided Soul. You can find all of these things at Warcraftmovies.com, which is a great resource for old and new World of Warcraft films. I just wanted to mention him because Falch was one of the first people to do full length films.
Ricky Grove 16:12
My second film, and I got it from Nixxiom's list, and it was a movie that I saw when it came out, but I didn't pay much attention because that stupid accent thing, but it's Illegal Danish Super Snacks 1 and 2. Number 1 had no dialogue. Number two had dialogue. And really, number 1 was a kind of try out for like a proto version of what they wanted to do and 2 is really the best one. And they promised to do a 3 but they never came came out with it. Myndflame was the company that did that group of machinima filmmakers. And here's what Nixxiom had to say about Illegal Danish Super Snacks. He said back in the day, whenever short machinima movies would pop up when they pop up most of them kind of sucked. But not Illegal Danish. It was funny. It was memorable. It was quotable. What was it about? I don't know. The movie is crazy. And that's exactly the reason I love it. It's absolutely crazy. It has to do with a Danish being the center of you know, a Danish pastry. A magical Danish being something that people want to get to gain power in this wacky World of Warcraft world. And it's a kind of satire, but it is primarily this gender bending farce-like crazy thing that I don't know how they did it, but it was just hilarious. And watching it again. I it's long. It's fairly long. It's almost an hour but oh my god, is it fun? it? I love the idea that that satire is such an important thing. And it's and I and I began to reflect that I think satire is an important mode for machinima, all through machinima, for example, Phil your wonderful Father Frags Best was one of the most interesting satires on an established sitcom mode. And I think people pick picked up on that partially from your your filmmaking and partially from others. And I think that mode and machinima is still an important mode for today. And it's a way for other gamers to make other gamers laugh. And to comment on the game. The idea that somehow in the game, you you got to get this magical talisman, you know, in order to become powerful. Well, there were spoofing and all of that by turning that talisman into a Danish. G-Mod does this really well, as well in the world of HalfLife? Remember that chiropractor film that Phil shared with us last last month? Oh, that's a that's a complete satire. So I think one of the things that I loved about Illegal Danish despite the fact that it was just madness, a mad fun romp, was the fact that it's such a great satire. What did you guys think?
Tracy Harwood 19:31
Yeah, well, I think there's a few things I think about this particular one, I think for me, what it illustrated so well was the range of different sets in this game environment. I go back to that metaverse theme those all those different sets and the way in which they were kind of connected but the thing that stuck stuck in my mind was these some of these cracking lines that they come out with [Oh, yeah], that one was with that really? squeaky voice. There's something about your Voice character says, It's a bit like the last thread on a very thin rope line was wonderful. And I think that those lines that they just sort of draw on the fantasy role player that game and, and that's and you can really drawn into the that sort of narrative in, you know, embedded story world through the way that they pull those lines together. But you know what it felt like, I mean, maybe maybe this isn't as an age thing, but it felt inspired by Adventures of Scooby Doo for me. So I don't know if it was or how that came to be. But it felt very Scooby Doo ish. And, yes, there was a lot more adult content, but that that was the kind of the Adventures Of through through those little sub narratives that all kind of knit together to create it. But the other thing that stands out for me in this one is that it also highlights the the community nature in the creation. We've talked about that before in this episode, where, you know, the producers, the primary actors, but they're also bringing in a whole Guild of folks through the what is it the Manerov server that are all embroiled in that sort of those those guild scenes, discussing the you know, the Danish and its properties? Which is, which is, you know, and yet another example of, you know, how communities involved in these, you know, these, these metaverse type type games. So it's, I suppose really, the other side of it is, it's not so much about the production process, but the fact that when it was released on YouTube, later on, what you then got it this is in 2011, when it was kind of re released into YouTube is that he then got a whole community of folks reflecting back on the game that they had played back in the day. Oh, God, I remember that. That was such great fun, which is, you know, your Nixxiom's, Nixxiom's reflections as well. The fact that he, he was just harking back to the good old days of when folks got together. So, you know, I guess I'm not surprised, really that I suppose. You know, I suppose really, when that when Blizzard went back to these kinds of, you know, Classic Wow, as a way of, of reactivating community. It was really quite a smart move to do that. And, you know, these machinima would have been a way of actually helping to keep that community knitted together, all of you know, all of those years later, notwithstanding the issues that Captain Grim sort of identified later on. But I think that comes through very clearly in this particular example of machinima for me, [good point]. 15 years, even after it was originally released is still a great while not.
Phil Rice 23:03
Yeah, and Myndflame that the group that was behind that film, they were a team, they were a sizeable team, actually. And very diverse group of people, there was one, one girl that was on that team, her first name was Jenna, I can't remember her last name. And we ended up in an interview somehow, and I can't remember if I interviewed her for my old podcast, or she interviewed me for hers. But we ended up, you know, discussing and kind of mutually admiring each other's work and stuff, but, and she told me a bit about that team and stuff. And I mean, to think that that happened. For that to happen now would be exceptional to have a tight knit team that spread out like that unified simply by enjoying like, like you said, Tracy, it's, the game is part of it. Yeah, but it's really those people and those interactions with the game. And this, this film emerged at a time when there was this whole groundswell of that Warcraft movie site. I think it's the same website that was active back then. Just hundreds and hundreds of Warcraft movies, and most of them were all based on humor or stories that emerged within that community that didn't exist before. But like you said, in this case, they were they were, you know, kind of spoofing an element of the game, you know, the talisman [right]. And, and, but there was there was this whole crop of those and it was amazing. And so that movement was was interesting to see. And as someone who never played Warcraft, kind of intimidating, you know, that here we are excited about, you know, our handful of little films at machinima.com and there's Warcraftmovies.com just hundreds of productions. Yeah, mind you. You know, not, not many of them Oscar worthy, but it didn't matter. You know, it was it was just an exciting and very alive time. And and yeah, that that is I think that is the attraction to, to that game and to the movies from that era is is pretty special time for a lot of people involved with that. And it was because of the people that they were involved with that that's what they enjoy recollecting you know,
Damien Valentine 25:29
Yeah. I've seen a lot of videos in a similar kind of stuff with this from different games. And I may, watching this has made me think maybe I should choose one of those for my selection next month. But it's one of those things poking fun at the game. It's one of those ideas that it could fall apart really easily. Or it could work really well. And in this case, it worked really well. And you've got all these different things happening. It's complete nonsense, but it's entertaining to watch because they did it so well. And then you got all these, this kind of this loose story about the Danish pastry, but then you got these other random elements like the thing of the dancing creatures for no apparent reason other than that, they're just there. I think it kind of goes through the whole collaboration thing is, obviously some of my team said, let's have some dancing monsters, because it'd be really funny. And so they just they shot that however they they did it in I'm not familiar with how to make Warcraft machinima. So whatever the process was, they decided to do it. And they did it. And they put it in the film. And it made me laugh. And yeah, I don't know what else I can say that you guys have already covered on it, because I like the parody of the sort of the satire element. And I like the idea that a group of players, I guess they played the game together decided, well, let's make some films together while we're in it, because it's a game we really love. And yeah, you can tell. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tracy Harwood 25:29
Phil Rice 26:57
Yeah. And so making it emerge from this kind of place of purity, you know, of just yeah. Like Ricky commented on a couple episodes ago about you know, what, what's attractive about machinima is when someone's not doing it for some other end, but just out of out of that pure enjoyment. It's, it's, yeah, it's special. [Yep.]
Tracy Harwood 27:22
Damien Valentine 27:24
So I've chosen two films this week as well. Not from World of Warcraft, I went with Elite Dangerous because I've been talking about this game previously in this month's podcast. So the first choice was Lusitania's Journey. And it's kind of, it's a comedy piece. And it's about the player. Basically, he's having an affair with Princess Duvall, who is one of the major NPC characters in the game world. And he steals her ship, because the guy that she's actually meant to be involved with is another powerful NPC character. Basically, he catches them and he wants to, he's basically running out the window climbing out the window as he's coming in the front door. And he flies off in the ship. And it's mostly just told through voiceovers and you've got some, you've got visuals of it, and you see the guy flying the ship, and so on. But then you've got the portraits, which are the in game portraits of the characters because they don't appear as characters you can interact with. They're just, you just see these artwork, paintings that the developers have done. And you can see what their influences on how they're affecting the game. Well, you never actually go meet them or anything like that. So this is the only artwork exists of the princess, and so on. So this works really well because you don't need to see her in the video, you just need to hear the voice. I really enjoyed this whole sort of comedy element to it. And the way the game is structured is you take your, create your character, and then you create tell your own story. There's no you don't just follow one question and go to the next one and the next one. You play it the way you want and you encourages you to tell your own story and so Rurikhan has decided his story is his character is secret having an affair with the princess. And why not! So what do you guys think of it?
Tracy Harwood 29:33
Yeah. I'm glad you gave me that context. Because I was thinking what what is this about really? [Okay], very, very minimalist. And you kind of get to know a bit about a little bit about the characters but not really that that much. But so yeah, I think that did get the kind of the comedy of the this strange affair kind of thing going on in that in the background. Yeah. Yeah, I'm pleased you said about the, you know, the, the way the characters are revealed because I wouldn't you know, I'm not I haven't played that game I wouldn't have. I wouldn't have picked up on that. What did you guys think?
Phil Rice 30:13
Yeah, I've never played the game either. And I, I didn't. I didn't recognize you know where that artwork came from for all I knew it was pulled from somewhere else. But for me, it didn't matter at all. I ended up getting it, you know, the scenario. Very, very funny the way that I think the the point that really made me laugh out loud was when you have the princess's picture up there. And then our protagonist, and then the husband comes home and the one picture kind of knocks him off. I just thought that's just so simple and silly, and just an easy post production thing, but so effective, you know, so, yeah. I just I found it found it quite funny. And it is, it's one of the simplest. Probably, this is one of the simplest things to make, that you could make. And yet, you know, the joke comes across. The character type. This rogue you know, almost naughty Han Solo. Just going around the universe doing whatever it just it. I don't know what it reminded me of specifically, but I got the type and, and yeah, I found it found it funny, [Ricky].
Ricky Grove 31:31
I didn't like the film at all. I thought the whole thing was silly and hard to understand. It was one of those machinima that you had to play the game to understand the context of it. Which, you know, I understand gamers in a particular game world they make films for each other. Just didn't work for me. The story seemed to be slight and contrived. And compared to the next film that Damien recommends. It just, it just didn't work for me. I thought, in a way, the style was a kind of workaround for the fact that they couldn't do any real 3d camera moves. So it just seemed to be uninspired to me, and didn't have a lot of imagination.
Tracy Harwood 32:16
Almost a let's play maybe,
Ricky Grove 32:18
Damien Valentine 32:20
That's fair enough. So one of the reasons I chose that film was it is so different from the next film I'm going to talk about, because I felt like we're gonna be talking about metaverse, and all these online games, I thought it's important to show that you, you can tell very different stories in one sort open world environment. So the next film is called Void and it deals with a character who's the last survivor of some kind of alien encounter. And you don't really get to see what happened, you get some shots of this sort of alien environment. And in the game world, the alients are called the Thargoids. And there's this whole mystery about who they are and what was going on. And it's kind of like an ongoing thing where you can go in, so investigate, but people, the players actually have to figure it out themselves. And they were working together. But obviously, this particular mission went really badly. And this guy's lost his entire crew. And he's kind of dealing with the trauma of that experience. And I don't want to talk too much about the story, because I always worry about spoilers for people who haven't had a chance to see it yet. But it's just so dark and intense. And yet it's the same world that this silly story that we were just talking about was made in. And I feel like that's one of the good things about metaverse environments. They're huge. And so you have this room to tell a scary story or a serious story [right]. Or comedy. And so that's why I chose Void and actually void is the one I chose pick first and found first and this is so good, but I need to find something to contrast it with. So what do you guys think of void?
Phil Rice 34:03
Oh, it is so good. It's one of the one of my favorite machinima films from any source that I've seen in a long time. And I don't know, again, I've never played the game. So that backstory bit that you gave to it. I had no knowledge of that. Maybe it was in the description. I didn't even read the description. I usually don't before watching. Again, I got it right away. I mean, even if it's just a study in the madness that can come from isolation. It was wonderful. What it reminded me of was there's a there's a live action movie that came out probably 10 years ago. I can't remember the name of the lead actor, but basically the whole thing was this guy was on the moon. [Oh, yeah], they're by himself. [It's just called Moon]. Yes. And wonderful soundtrack. And, and just and again, and just a study of that, you know, something that's known, I think, which is that isolation really screws with you, you know. And I felt like this was in that same vein, and just exploring that and what the mind does in that. So even not knowing that there had been some specific trauma to me, even forgetting that that even happened and just the trauma of being isolated in the black void of space. That's enough to drive anybody mad. And it was just wonderfully done. I really liked it. I'm very curious to hear what what Ricky thinks I suspect it's, it's kind of up his alley, because it's got a bit of a horror vibe to it, even though there's no, there's no blood spatter at all, you know?
Ricky Grove 35:52
Yeah. I wanted to say that there's... America, in the early years started to write horror stories, but they weren't called horror stories they were called weird tales. Po wrote something called The Weird Tale. And then that faded in the early 20th century, when the term horror was created by publishers in order to sell a particular genre or a particular product. But in the last 1015 years, the weird tale has come back, because the weird tale has very unusual elements to it. One of the things that it does is it makes you uncomfortable when you're watching, it makes you feel queasy. Like, somehow something is going to happen, and it's not going to be good. And you, you don't know what it is, and you're sort of waiting for it to happen. The Jeff VanderMeer wrote us a series of books called the Southern Reach Trilogy. Annihilation was the first one they made a film of it. A very poor film, compared to the novels. But anyway, he single handedly reestablish the weird tale vibe. And so now that's just spread out everywhere. This film could be the result of Jeff VanderMeer's impact on culture. But what void does is it puts you in this situation where, if you look at it objectively, nothing much happens, except for a couple flash frames where there are these odd strange creatures that are right close up. So they're, they're very arresting. But the rest of it is just this character, looking around, and you're hearing his inner voice thinking, and then shots of the void of space where you see that this small ship with this huge universe. So ostensibly the visuals as well as they are in the editing is they are no great shakes. But the context of the story, the monologue, and the excellence of the acting, makes the thing so creepy. It's very much like Lovecraft's story in space. Yes. And it implies far more than what it actually shows. So the so the viewer begins to imagine all of these things in your head. And the more you imagine, the scarier the film gets. So I'm really I was really moved by this film. I watched it a couple times. I thought it was just a masterful example of what machinima can do. It is pure machinima. Because if you look at it, I know that they didn't step by step animate that guy's, the characters animations. They just took the shot and the character did the root animations that they do, right. In that right, Damien? [Yeah. Yeah.] So they managed to shoot footage, and create animations for that character that were perfectly matched by accident with the voiceover. Do you know what I mean? And that's, that's what machinima you can do with machinima where you do create things almost by accident by improvising, and some of those movements while like he'd say something, something that was really bothering him and then he turned and look away. And you got this feeling like he was trying to look away from his thoughts. Like he was trying to get away from it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, man. What a great choice. Really, really exciting. Thanks for picking this film.
Tracy Harwood 39:34
I don't think I can add to that at all. I just, I again, I thought it was beautifully acted the soundscape design. I thought it was just very well synced. I thought it was by design. I didn't get the feeling it was improv. But you know, I'm sure you're right on that. It was it was a real psychological drama for me. Not an I'm not sure I would call it horror, but by the time I'd finished watching it, it was really creepy.
Damien Valentine 40:00
Yeah, it's kind of hard in the same way the alien is hard is kind of the horror science fiction crossover element.
Tracy Harwood 40:07
It creeped me out there. So
Ricky Grove 40:09
There's almost a sense. There's a sense of dread you get. Yeah. gets that gets more and more powerful as the story goes on.
Tracy Harwood 40:19
Yeah, yeah, I'm not in the same way at all. But do you remember the film called Ignis Solus? Oh, yeah. Do you remember that film? Well, it was vaguely reminiscent of that machinima for me because that that was all about how it feels to be alone in the game burn alone. And and this had that kind of same sense of what is it like to be alone in this game? Not not in not in terms of the aesthetic or what was going on but just that that notion of being on your own in the in the game. I thought it was playing on that brought that other I can see that other one to mind.
Phil Rice 41:02
Yeah, for me that does that does put it in in the horror category. Again, not the modern Hollywood understanding of horror. You know, the Saw movies are nonsense like that. I mean, yeah, true, get inside your head. Oh, did we lose Tracy? Oh, there she is.
Tracy Harwood 41:19
Yeah, I love
Phil Rice 41:21
The example that I can think of is I remember the first time that I saw Stanley Kubrick's 2001. And there's a scene where by I hope I'm remembering this right. And I'm going to hear from a lot of people if I'm telling this wrong, but isn't there there's some scene where one of the astronauts is outside the spacecraft and ends up getting jettisoned still in a spacesuit but gets jettisoned out. And I think that he ends up dying pretty quickly. So it's not really that he's experiencing this horror, but that image of this astronaut suit just floating off into the blackness, just played with my imagination so much. I had literal nightmares about that. The thought of that, you know, not even thinking through the physics of will you'll run out of air after such and such time, so no, it was there gonna be drifting forever in nothingness. And that's horrifying, you know, in a way that no Freddie Kruger is ever going to do. Yep, so yeah, I I loved it. I don't like experiencing that emotion. But I really admire that this. Yeah, this simple machinima film. It. It tugged at that same. Same part of me. Yeah. Very effective. Yep.
Tracy Harwood 42:49
Great choice. Great choice. [I'm glad you enjoyed it.] Um, brilliant. So what have you got for us?
Phil Rice 42:56
Well, I thought I would give us kind of a whirlwind tour through some of what's some of the stuff that's that's done in Minecraft. Now, the reason for choosing Minecraft is because obviously it is. It has metaverse like characteristics, at least when it's played in certain ways. But it's not exactly a hotbed of, of good machinima pics. There are people doing machinima in it, but it's not really. You know, I don't I don't want to. I'm not going to call it Cockney or anything. But yeah, not not, not really to the standard that most other machinima engines can do. However, there is a huge amount and variety of styles of let's play that is done in that engine. And, like whole genres of let's play, that really Minecraft has either led the way on or still leads the way on. So I'm just going to kind of give you a brief mention of some of those. And then we'll put a list of them in the show notes so people could explore if they're interested.
Phil Rice 44:15
The first Minecrafter that I ever encountered on YouTube was a guy goes by the name of Stampylonghead. He's from Britain somewhere. He's got about 10 million followers on YouTube. He's been Oh my god, Minecraft videos since Minecraft came out really? mostly on the Xbox. And I think now he does some on the PC. All very kid friendly stuff. Like I mean, even his voice, it's like he's on the Captain Kangaroo Show or something. You know, it's it's, he knows his audience is kids and he couldn't be more delighted about it. And he's probably I don't know, I'm gonna guess he may have recently turned 30 years old. I mean, he's a young man but he's just found his niche and just loves what he's doing. So he builds these big worlds and he'll a lot of them are, he'll be in that world and you'll have a ton of people in there with him that maybe are part of the YouTube audience or just friends of his that he's made through this. And they'll just improv their way through little adventures. I kind of I think that his writing style is probably very similar, with different outcome. But similar to what I've heard is the style for Curb Your Enthusiasm. Hmm, with Larry David and those actors were basically when they approach a scene, they've got kind of an outline of, okay, we need to get from here to here. But there's no dialogue written, there's no script, they improv it. You can only do that with really skilled people. And, obviously, this isn't executed with that kind of skill, or, frankly, with that kind of humor. But that's what it is, is you get the feeling that okay, eventually we got to get to here you're going to make me this cake in Minecraft. But how they get there, they just they just kind of meander along and just have fun. And he's Yeah, he's attracted quite an audience with that. So I'll include a link to the his YouTube channel video which kind of gives a nice overview a bunch of clips from from different videos he's done.
Phil Rice 46:21
Longdotzip is another long time YouTube minecrafter. His focus is reviewing other people's creative content creations within Minecraft. And also he has hired a set of coders for Minecraft, who he'll come up with some idea about I want to do this crazy thing in Minecraft and they'll code it for him and then he makes the video about it. And he pays him to do it. He's an even younger guy, I would guess he's probably 26 years old and has been doing it for since he was a teenager since he was still in high school. Very entertaining guy huge following 4 something million followers. And and that's that's what he does. He's made this whole following from that. Another one is a guy named Dream who is a world record holding speed runner of Minecraft. Those of you don't know Minecraft while it is open world, there are certain advancements and achievements that the developers built into the game. The biggest the culmination of which is to slay the dragon. You have to do all these other things beforehand before you can get there and do that. And that's what a speed run in Minecraft is is getting from zero start a brand new random procedurally generated world and find and slay the dragon in this other alternate universe within Minecraft. It's crazy. And he I want to say that he's done it in 15 minutes. Oh, Minecraft for about a year before I felt ready to take on the Dragon. So yeah, well, his thing now is he's extremely skilled, obviously and moving through Minecraft very quickly. So he gets four or five of his friends to join a server with him they start up a new world. And he tries to complete the game while they all try to kill him. Most of the time, he wins. With five people who are no slouches themselves are trying to chase him down and kill him and overpower him. It is the most entertaining thing I've ever seen in Minecraft. Just about they just about break the internet when he releases I mean typically gets about 30 or 40 million views.
Ricky Grove 48:46
Oh my god
Phil Rice 48:47
in a few days. Yeah, probably the most. The most popular Minecraft are on YouTube. Very, very entertaining. You hear their voices the whole time. And it's all of them talking and interacting. And then after he releases the main video, he'll release like an uncut version, and some behind the scenes stuff. And it's just so entertaining to hear these, these guys who clearly know each other very well. And it's a real riot. Gamerboy80, he is another Minecrafter and he specializes in multiplayer. There's a competitive server called High Pixel hosted in the US. It's the largest minecraft server in the world hosts 100,000 simultaneous players at any given moment. That's that's the average how many people are in there playing at any time of day. And he's been on the leaderboard of some of the competitive games there. One of which is a capture the flag type game called Bed Wars. And so he he will record these games of just himself just playing that often with the odds deliberately stacked against him because being at his skill level, it's very hard for him to find any kind of challenge and he narrates the whole time as he plays and he's quite, quite funny. He's probably 20 something years old, all these guys are very, very young. The final one I'll mention is a guy named Ilmango. He's not the only one who does this, but he's the most impressive. He focuses his videos on... Minecraft has a built in what are called command blocks, which basically are it's a block you can place in the game and you put some code in there that will execute based on certain conditions and you can chain them together and basically run a program within Minecraft that will manipulate the blocks or manipulate the environment through automation and pistons moving this that the other and there's a whole power system they call Redstone that you chain it all together with. Very impressive. And so he'll build these unbelievably huge and complex contraptions using simply that system. And then he shows them off and goes through and explains everything about how it works. Oh, remarkable. The most recent one that I saw him do is a 3d printer in Minecraft, that basically he can put in a pixel art image and this thing will build it out of the various colors of wool that you could have in Minecraft. It's astounding and he's been doing that for years just just amazing. So again, narrative machinima argue arguably Dream's stuff is has a narrative to it. It's a chase, you know, it's a great race type of thing. Cannonball Run and full of shorts, if you will, but other than that narrative mission is not really very strong. And there's good reason for that. And one is that there are certain mods that would be required to make that feasible and modding for Minecraft while the modding community is huge, and thriving. The challenge is the game is updated so often, and in significant ways that mods break all the time. You know, a mod that worked three versions ago, doesn't work now. So there are people at different phases of Minecraft's history who have they made one that's very similar to the old Key Grip tool that was made for Quake that made so much machinima possible where you re-cam and position cameras and script their movements and Hugh Hancock, a strange company, they wrote it a tool where you could move a camera along a spline in Quake 2 as well. Those tools have been attempted. But you know, it's all by volunteers. And, you know, you invest your time in that and then the next update to the game comes out and it breaks it. So the utility of those is, is can be quickly made obsolete, and it's just not reasonable to expect. You know, for fun developers to keep up with the pace that that Minecraft is, is making significant updates to itself. There are on average one major update per year, on average.
Phil Rice 49:10
Well, I was gonna ask you that the tools to make machinima in Minecraft have to be pretty simple, because so many kids make machinima. But also, there's so much of it being put on the net every day. What what are some of the tools? Are they just mods for Minecraft? Or are they built into the game?
Phil Rice 53:35
I'm sorry, that last sentence broke up on me there are they
Ricky Grove 53:39
Are they mods that you have to use mods to make Minecraft or the machinima tools built into the game?
Phil Rice 53:46
Well, most of the there are mods that people use to modify the way certain aspects of the game go. I don't know of a whole lot of mods that are helpful specifically for for machinima purposes, a lot of that ends up just being multiplayers getting together one person is the camera turn off the hood and film. That's that's usually what it comes down to. So there is there is one time lapse tool that I know of. But it does require multiplayer. It's it's Damien's setup that he mentioned another computer there with the camera on and these masks use your nose and basically the camera just sits still. Or in some cases, they'll have something that can simply move the camera very slowly over time. And it captures then with some third party software, they're capturing time lapse frames. Meanwhile, they're building some huge thing. So there's not a whole lot of tools within the game that aid that a lot of it is just people, you know, working in multiplayer groups or just not minding that it comes from the perspective of the player, it's not hard to hide the HUD, and the, you know, the weapon the players holding, you can easily shut those things off and have just a clean screen. And then that person in creative mode, you can fly around and be anywhere even go through walls if you need to. So a lot of the basic tools are just natural to the game, they were, you know, Minecraft has multiple modes you can play in: survival, which is, you know, you have hunger and you can get killed and you have to survive. And then built right into the game from the early days was creative mode, which there's no more rules. And you can have access to any of the blocks in the game and even heart access. And you can place those and build them at will. And then there's an adventure mode version, which is used for I actually use this for, for a mod, an adventure map for Minecraft that I made called Contagion. And it's basically a game with levels that you can play through and, and advance through, I'll tell you a little bit about the game. It's it's, and I promise you, I did not release it, post-COVID. Because the game is your, your each level is you're in a village and one of the villagers has some kind of contagious infection and will invisibly infect other villagers and you have to deduce who the source of the infection is and then strike them down before they went. You can imagine how well that went over. When I released that. Two months before COVID hit.
Ricky Grove 56:44
Yeah, timing timing at the wrong time.
Phil Rice 56:48
Not the first time that's happened to me either. Yeah, that's that's but anyway. So that's an adventure map that basically I used the creative mode of the game to put all these commands together and have all this structure to this game. But when I distribute it, I distributed what's called adventure mode, which means when a player enters that map, they can't alter it in all the ways that you normally could, they have to kind of play through it as in more of a traditional architecture and I as the creator of it can limit what they're able to do. Right so that there's an actual game within the game and many games stuff like that is a whole other sub genre within Minecraft. There's all kinds of stuff like that.
Ricky Grove 57:28
Phil Rice 57:28
Anyway, so that's that's my not as short as I wanted it to be whirlwind tour of Minecraft. [Nice.]
Tracy Harwood 57:34
I'm fascinated by the breadth of ways that that can be played and let you know. I think when we first started this podcast, we were thinking let's play was just play the game. Yeah, but what you've demonstrated there is so much more to it than just play the game. [Oh, yeah.]
Phil Rice 57:56
That's helped by a game that offers so many so much variety of ways you can play the game, including the built in ability for users to create games within the game. Yes, but Roblox is the other example of an environment that runs that right. And it's huge in popularity. [oh yeah.]
Ricky Grove 58:15
I've wanted to mention that Omniverse Machinima has a Minecraft element to it as well. You can save levels from Minecraft and upload them into Omniverse Machinima and create machinima using motion capture with a Minecraft character. Wow.
Phil Rice 58:39
That's not possible any other way by the way. That's wonderful news. I can't wait till 2026 when I can get an RTX card and try that out.
Tracy Harwood 58:54
Okay, shall we move to mine? The final films for this week this month. So I'm neither Wow, nor sci-fi nor block stuff really. I'm going to go back a little bit to Second Life. And I'm talking old time stuff too. So my first film is the Petrovski Flux, which is a machinima that was made by somebody called Toxic Menges back in 2009. But it's not actually a film as such. It's a tour of a virtual art installation in Second Life, which represented a kind of steampunk city in the sky, which was hosted by the Spencer Museum of Arts on their island and created by a couple of folks in world called Bloto Epsilon and Cutie Benelli. It's long since been dismantled Of course and is now completely disappeared from the virtual space. So it's a fly through it, it's illustrating the kind of organic nature of the installation and put to some pretty impressive music, which actually complements the strangeness of the artwork quite well. What's interesting about it is though, it's not the only machinima of this experience, but it's the one that I like the best, because actually, it produces that sense of nostalgia from having experienced that actual installation all those years ago. So what it's doing therefore is documenting and archiving the experience of being in the sim in the artwork, and at a time when that virtual environment behaved in a very particular way. So that, for me is a is a kind of a good example of a documentary style machinima. Before I asked you what your thoughts are, that I'm gonna tell you about the second one as well. And the second one I picked is Molotov Alva and His Search for the Creator: A Second Life Odyssey. Now, you'll probably recall this. This was by Douglas Gayeton, it was released in 2007. But actually it was commissioned by a Dutch channel called Submarine. And the film became infamous because it was the first machinima sold and distributed by a mainstream channel - HBO at the time. Now it's a it's a narrative story filmed in a in a documentary style, over 10 episodes. And it's actually it's something that you picked out earlier Phil, I think it was, it's actually it's about a character this Molotov Alva, who, who leaves his carbon based world to inhabit this virtual environment of Second Life. And it's basically shot as a video diary of the exploits that he experienced as he travels as he travels in this kind of virtual space and explores the limits of virtuality in some sort of parody of real life, including things like ownership of space, relationships with others, the representation of others in that space, all in search, ultimately, for the Creator, which of course, he eventually discovers is not one person, but many people. And in turn, he becomes a creator, only to realize he is part of this market economy that he doesn't really like at all. He's quite unhappy with his choices, so becomes a griefer. And eventually, he seeks to reconnect with his physical life. So it's kind of a narrative full cycle. And somewhat of a snapshot and an observation, I suppose, of the breadth of experiences that you can have in that virtual environment, including its frustrations and its limitations. Now, what I liked about that, is that it's, it's documenting in a different kind of way. Its actually, narrative, but it's it's this documentary style that I kind of refer to in this metaverse kind of journey that we've been talking about.
Tracy Harwood 1:03:11
But but there's another film that you can look at, which is actually very similar and a lot shorter to watch. And that's Tutsy Navarathna's Journey Into The Metaverse, which was released in 2011. Where in fact, what he's doing there as the producer, is he's playing with this meaning of the word avatar, which sees Indian and his avatar explores that dramatically within Second Life, but he's actually playing on that, on that word, that Sanskrit word, which has to do with the spiritual quest. So he sort of, you kind of got this recursive link of observation, of observations of observations going on in the world going on in the real world, back into that kind of virtual space. And it's, it's kind of very, it's like a Gordian knot of observations when you sort of put these things together, I think. So, you know, again, what, what, for me these, these three little films illustrate is this expansiveness of the virtual experience and the ways in which that narrative inspires the creators to to explore and document what they're doing, and then retell their stories to others. What did you think?
Damien Valentine 1:04:27
Well, the start with the Petrovsky one I'm the winner is released or around that sort of time. I watched it, I didn't like it because it was just a tour of this environment in Second Life, I thought, well, if I want to see this, I can just go into Second Life and explore it myself. Yeah. So it at the time did not appeal to me at all. But now, as you said, that doesn't exist in Second Life anymore. So as far as we know, this video could be the only record of this creation that someone made in Second Life, so it's, it's got a different sort of appeal to me now because there's no way to go and see it. I can't go and have a tour around it because it doesn't, it's not there anymore. And someone's obviously spent a lot of time building this. And for whatever reason they took it apart or sold it or whatever happened. And so it's gone. There's absolutely no way that's ever going to be viewable again, apart from this video. And so this is now a record of someone's creation that they spent a lot of time building.
Tracy Harwood 1:05:35
What about the others?
Damien Valentine 1:05:37
I didn't get a chance to watch the Molotov Alva one. But I did watch the Journey Into The Metaverse, and one of the things I liked about that was the idea that the avatar wanted to come into the real world, and explore sort of our world rather than just the virtual character. And it's kind of feeling of what if these virtual characters did actually have personalities and want to explore kind of reminded me a little bit of The Matrix, not really. But the idea of escaping the virtual reality, virtual worlds to create the real one. And also remind me of a game that I was playing recently Stellaris, another space empire building game. Some planets have got these big sites, which you can dig up and you uncover ancient secrets. So this is one where it said that the entire population killed themselves because they believed they were all in a virtual environment and thought that was the only way to escape. And of course, they weren't because it wasn't a video game. Yeah.
Tracy Harwood 1:06:39
Damien Valentine 1:06:41
The message is completely different from the film. It's just that watching the film gave me that same sort of memory. So yeah, that's my thoughts on the two films I watched. [nice.]
Tracy Harwood 1:06:53
Ricky, what did you do?
Ricky Grove 1:06:54
Well, Petrovski Flux was a wonderful film. It's like watching a surrealist painting come alive. Dolly steampunk, you know, it's strange, it's mysterious. And the feeling you get from from the way that film moves the camera in amongst the parts of the creation, and the use of excellent music that you pointed out earlier, gives you a feeling and that that's the most important thing about it. I think it's Second Life is unique in that machinima documentary is such a live movement there. It gives you a perspective on a virtual event, or a virtual creation, or a poetic creation inside of Second life. I think. Although I have to say that if there was another filmmaker, who a documentary filmmaker who made a documentary about this location, somebody with a better sense of humor could make a very funny film out of it. Because there's some very funny things that the machine does, you know, drop things down and everything. So it's a perspective on the event and like I said, nowhere else but Second Life, do you find these kinds of films. Remember, I mentioned dance documentaries from the Milan machinima Film Festival by Iona Allen, which were very serious and very strange. So I like that part of it. And I like to film very much, and it does create a sense of nostalgia in Second Life. I want to contrast the Molotov Alva with Journey to the Metaverse by Tutsy. Journey to the Metaverse is just an extraordinary film to see as a unique artist. I don't think any other filmmaker makes movies like he does. He manages to combine live action with Second Life machinima in a way that nobody has been able to do effectively. He's also a very postmodern writer. You know, nowadays, we talk about meta being a joke where it refers to anything that refers to itself. But he's all he's trying to understand his country and himself. And what it means to to be that in a virtual world. What's the difference between himself and an avatar? It's the kind of poetic philosophical machinima that only he can make. And it's just genius because it takes you in places and you follow his thinking in a way that you don't in Molotov Alva. I didn't like Molotov Alva but when it came out, and I don't like it now. In fact, I'd like at least. It's disingenuous and its an extended advertisement for Second Life in the guise of a philosophical search for yourself. There are too many in consistencies in the characters reasoning. You get to a point where you go well, he said this but earlier he said that, well, why couldn't he have done this? I think it's a fad machinima that became famous because of its timing. It came out at a time in which Second Life was huge. And I think HBO saw an example to capitalize on an interest in Second Life. And it has the appearance of being deep and important. But I think it's phony and disingenuous. So Journey Into The Metaverse is the real deal. Molotov Alva is a wannabe.
Tracy Harwood 1:10:24
That's fair enough. Phil?
Phil Rice 1:10:26
Yeah, all of these were a reminder of that first decade of the 2000s. The latter half of it when it's just some extraordinary work was coming out of Second Life. It may be that that's still the case. But it seems like it really peaked then. And yeah, these the documentary style just kind of naturally came from that world, I think. The one thing I'll say is, because you guys have pretty much covered it is that... Molotov Alva, I actually met the creator of that Douglas at the Machinima Film Festival. And I got to talk to him for for a bit. It's an older older guy, older than me. And he's a very interesting guy very deep. And yeah, I got the impression. I don't have quite as strong feelings about Molotov that Ricky does, but it, it never was one that that gripped me as a favorite. And then and also now too, I can't help but wonder like, how much of what I end up disliking about the end product was all the other hands in the pot that were inevitably there, given where it was going to be released, you know. The man himself, Douglas was, was was a deep and kind of serious person. It was kind of comical, because, you know, of course, at that same machinima film festival, there's stuff of the ilk of, you know, Illegal Danish Super Snacks, and I can just see what if I got myself into here, you know, he was, he wasn't, he wasn't being, he was being very gracious. Like, he wasn't being snooty. But there was this kind of sense of, you know, this stuff isn't like what I'm trying to do at all. I took it to what he was doing very seriously. You met him too? I think there didn't check it. Yeah. Nice, man. Very nice guy. And but but very serious. And I don't know a whole lot about his background. But he he took what he was doing very seriously and really wanted to say something meaningful with this. And I think, Ricky that that came through to you that there was there was a want to [Yeah], but, but it didn't end up in the final product. And, you know, maybe that's just that, you know, he blew it. And maybe it's that the inevitable compromises that you have to make, I think for when you sign your work over to people with different motives, very different motivations. And you have, you know, it's I got the impression he wasn't there to make money at all, you know, he wasn't there about that. This was a very, he was very personally passionate about it. And, and I didn't get a sense from him on whether he was happy with how it turned out. He didn't really emphasize that a lot in our relatively brief conversation, but but he felt like it was that it was an important subject.
Tracy Harwood 1:13:54
I said, I don't ever remember him really talking about it a great deal after it was released through HBO. And now he was very excited that it was going through HBO, but I Oh, yeah.
Ricky Grove 1:14:04
Can you imagine me? Who wouldn't be?
Phil Rice 1:14:06
Yeah, the idea of that is extraordinarily exciting. Yeah. As someone who I know was, he was Yeah, he's very. He's an artistic type. And absolutely, I can't help but wonder anybody who has to surrender something that personal and that deep to them, and just watch it get changed. If that's, that's probably the kindest verb I can think of. For what can happen.
Tracy Harwood 1:14:39
Okay. Well, I'm somewhat conscious that what we've done in this section of our episode is reflect on machinimas is to explore what is really only now emerging as a plausible concept in terms of the metaverse so we've still got more to discuss on this one, I think. But what we'll do for now is wrap this up as our Films section. And in the next part of our episode, we'll explore some of the challenges as we see them. So that's it from me for now. I'm Tracy Harwood and from Ricky Grove
Ricky Grove 1:15:10
Hello. [Goodbye], goodbye.
Tracy Harwood 1:15:16
from Phil. Goodbye, say goodbye. Goodbye. Thank you and from Damian, [see you next time]. Thank you very much. Phil, do you want to again remind folks how they can get in touch with us please.
Phil Rice 1:15:31
I'm going to do the abbreviated version. Since we're running long. Go to machinima, complete the machinima.com Click the talk button.
Tracy Harwood 1:15:40
Thank you, and that's a wrap on that!
And Now For Something Completely Machinima