And Now For Something Completely Machinima

Completely Machinima 3.3 Machinima Discussion April 2021

April 15, 2021 Ricky Grove and Phil Rice Season 3 Episode 3
And Now For Something Completely Machinima
Completely Machinima 3.3 Machinima Discussion April 2021
Chapters
0:38
Damien's newest Episode of his machinima series, "Star Wars: Heir to the Empire" is out
2:32
Ricky's Report on the Milan Machinima Festival
7:15
Ricky's fav Milan Festival film "Fire Underground"
9:50
First discussion question, "..has machinima dissolved into the larger culture of streaming and game videos?"
10:36
Tracy's answer
16:22
Phil's take
23:17
Damien's response
25:26
Ricky's answer
31:14
Second question, "Is Let's Play just game-play or is it a more significant type of machinima?"
40:09
Ricky on a Let's Play machinima at the Milan Machinima Festival
50:50
Phil on shooting "Father Frags Best"
52:44
Third question, "What the hell is NFT?"
1:06:50
Tracy nails the NFT question
And Now For Something Completely Machinima
Completely Machinima 3.3 Machinima Discussion April 2021
Apr 15, 2021 Season 3 Episode 3
Ricky Grove and Phil Rice

CM Episode 3.3 Machinima Discussion Show Notes

And Now For Something Completely Machinima is a long-form podcast devoted to machinima (movies made in game engines), real-time technologies, and virtual reality. This month (April 2021) we are splitting our 3rd podcast into four sections which will post once a week: Machinima News (April 1), Machinima Films (April 8), Machinima Discussion (April 15), and a Special “Build a Machinima PC” podcast (April 22).

Episode 3 was produced by Ricky Grove joined by hosts Phil Rice, Tracy Harwood, and Damien Valentine.

Summary: After Ricky's Milan Machinima Festival report he brings up a question that was put to one of the Festival jurors (Henry Lowood - "...has machinima dissolved into the larger culture of streaming and game videos") and then asks the other hosts their opinion. The next topic for discussion is the status and quality of the "Let's Play" machinima in 2021. Phil has particularly good insights. Finally, the gang takes on a contemporary topic that might impact machinima creators in "What the Hell is NFT?". As usual, Tracy has the best insights on this topic.

Contact and Feedback for this show:
https://completelymachinima.com/#talk


Time Stamps:

00:00:38  Damien's newest Episode of his machinima series, "Star Wars: Heir to the Empire" is out
00:02:32  Ricky's Report on the Milan Machinima Festival

00:07:15  Ricky's fav Milan Festival film "Fire Underground"

00:09:50  First discussion question, "..has machinima dissolved into the larger culture of streaming and game videos?"

00:31:14  Second question, "Is Let's Play just game-play, or is it a more significant type of machinima?"

00:50:50   Phil on shooting "Father Frags Best"

00:52:44  Third question, "What the hell is NFT?"

01:06:50  Tracy nails the NFT question

Note: Check the view chapters selection on this page to view the full timing breakdowns. 


Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

CM Episode 3.3 Machinima Discussion Show Notes

And Now For Something Completely Machinima is a long-form podcast devoted to machinima (movies made in game engines), real-time technologies, and virtual reality. This month (April 2021) we are splitting our 3rd podcast into four sections which will post once a week: Machinima News (April 1), Machinima Films (April 8), Machinima Discussion (April 15), and a Special “Build a Machinima PC” podcast (April 22).

Episode 3 was produced by Ricky Grove joined by hosts Phil Rice, Tracy Harwood, and Damien Valentine.

Summary: After Ricky's Milan Machinima Festival report he brings up a question that was put to one of the Festival jurors (Henry Lowood - "...has machinima dissolved into the larger culture of streaming and game videos") and then asks the other hosts their opinion. The next topic for discussion is the status and quality of the "Let's Play" machinima in 2021. Phil has particularly good insights. Finally, the gang takes on a contemporary topic that might impact machinima creators in "What the Hell is NFT?". As usual, Tracy has the best insights on this topic.

Contact and Feedback for this show:
https://completelymachinima.com/#talk


Time Stamps:

00:00:38  Damien's newest Episode of his machinima series, "Star Wars: Heir to the Empire" is out
00:02:32  Ricky's Report on the Milan Machinima Festival

00:07:15  Ricky's fav Milan Festival film "Fire Underground"

00:09:50  First discussion question, "..has machinima dissolved into the larger culture of streaming and game videos?"

00:31:14  Second question, "Is Let's Play just game-play, or is it a more significant type of machinima?"

00:50:50   Phil on shooting "Father Frags Best"

00:52:44  Third question, "What the hell is NFT?"

01:06:50  Tracy nails the NFT question

Note: Check the view chapters selection on this page to view the full timing breakdowns. 


Damien  0:08  
And now for something completely machinima

Ricky Grove  0:16  
Welcome to the And Now for Something Completely Machinima podcast. We're here talking with my three co hosts, Phil Rice. Hello, and Tracy Harwood and Damien Valentine.

Damien  0:36  
Hello there.

Ricky Grove  0:37  
Damien. You had a release of an episode of a new series you're starting on? No. Can you tell us about that real quick? Yeah,

Damien  0:45  
it's Episode 12 of Star Wars add to the Empire. So a little project have been working on for the last year where I've been turning chapters of one of my favorite Star Wars novels into short animated videos. And if you anyone listen to this wants to check it out. Just look up Star Wars s the Empire on YouTube, and you'll find all the episodes released so far. Cool. Well,

Ricky Grove  1:09  
good luck on that. I hope you get a lot of people watching it.

Damien  1:12  
Thank you.

Ricky Grove  1:13  
I'd also like to take this moment to announce that Damien is going to host our may podcast sessions and it's going to be Star Wars and space themed. So we're going to be looking at Space themed machinima and Star Wars, machinima and bringing in some guests and talking to Damian about it. So good luck to you, Damien. I that should be quite an interesting experience, throw in the deep end.

Damien  1:38  
I have to say I'm really looking forward to putting together that show and seeing what we can come up with.

Ricky Grove  1:43  
That's great. Yeah, me too. I think it should be a lot of fun. As a reminder, we're breaking up our show into separate sections rather than doing a real long one. The last one we did was 3.2, which was the film's discussion, this is 3.3. We're going to be our general discussion. I'm going to start out by talking a little bit about the Milan machinima Festival, which by the time you hear this will have closed, it ran March 15. To the 21st. I don't think they're going to be archiving very many of their films. So we're going to do our best to try to find out which films you can get access to. I'm gonna do a little report on that. Then we're going to talk about some ideas that came up out of that festival and then explore a couple other things. The Milan machinima festival is a was this last week. It's part of the Milan digital week, which is a larger digital festival around the city in which they have all sorts of interactive discussions and presentations about business and architecture and all sorts of interesting things that are connected to the digital arts. Milan, machinima festivals focus primarily on machinima. It's a virtual and it was free. Online because of the pandemic. They feature 25 works of machinima by 18 artists representing seven countries, and they created the six sections, and I have to commend them on these excellent selections of sections for the show. I'm not sure whether the sections came out of the films that were submitted, or whether they created the sections First, we'll find out anyway, the one of the first section was Grand Theft cinema, which I thought was cool. And then they did another one code confinement, click glitch escapes. They did five special screenings called the classical elements in which they did machinima themes based on the classical era elements of air earth, water and fire, which was just brilliant the films they chose, they did a game video essay. Unfortunately, it was only in Italian with knowing the subtitles, so that was the only thing that I was unable to watch. And then they highlighted an artist. I Oh, no, or he Oh, no. Allen, who's a second life virtual documentary filmmaker, who films, installations primarily of dance installations and second life. I want to say I really enjoyed all of the films. Perhaps one or two of them didn't seem quite up to par to me. But then again, you know, having run a festival myself, I I know what it's like trying to choose choose films. The focus on this this festival was on academic art. So that the which is a very different sort of a narrow focus compared to the Machina Plex festival we did in Second Life in which our focus was mostly on just getting the best films we could find. It these were films that were abstracted So they're very modernist films. And they were also films that were machinima films of ideas. And some of them were polemical, some of them were not polemical, some of them were clear. Some of them were very obfuscated. But overall, I just enjoyed them immensely. But the real revelation were to one Yano Allen's films. He is a French

man, middle aged man. And he came into second life in 2016. And was sort of searching around for something to do, and ended up being invited to a dance installation loved it so much and decided to film it. And that began a relationship with the installation artists in Second Life in which he began to fill more and more films. They did, I think, 15 of this films, all of which are pretty short. And they were all just magnificent films. I, I've been out of machine for a long time. So I didn't, I didn't know about about his work, but I'm so glad to be I've been introduced to it. They had an interview with him in which they asked him sometimes obscure questions, but most of the time, they were clear, and he answered them with grace and intelligence. And it was hard to imagine that he's a filmmaker who never made a film until his first Second Life film. Because the mastery of the camera is the camera movement and editing betrays somebody of immense talent. I don't know where that comes out of without training. But it did with him. And if you see one of his films, I hope in our blog, in our show notes, I'll find out what's available and slip it to you, but he just magnificent. And the models in Second Life, which are have always troubled me the rendering of the models with the sort of stretched materials on the faces and everything, they always bothered me. But in dance in this sort of abstract dance, it worked perfectly, just perfectly, gives an eerie, otherworldly feeling. Anyway, I just love his films. And then the very last film I watched was my absolute favorite. I think it's just a work of genius was called fire down below by Nick crocket. It was the only film that was shot in unity. And it was based on an experience he had as a graduate student in West Virginia. He went to a town there. And of course, it's a big mining town, and a lot of the mines had fallen into disuse. There was one one mining town that the coal underneath the city had caught fire. And it started creating these sort of holes where pets would fall into with flame. And so they eventually had to abandon the city and it's an abandoned city. And although the coal coal is still burning, it's much much lower. So you can you can go safely. And he went to for a visit for this. And it inspired him to make a film to do research on the history of the labor movement with coal miners and big coal companies. And he created this very strange and eccentric little film about that topic, and is just absolutely breathtakingly beautiful with original music and very carefully crafted models that he used that he imported into Unity. His interview, which was the best one of all of the interviews, I watched, he was articulate and intelligent and explain the background of it. I only figured out it was shot and unity because they had a screen capture of the Unity interface. And thankfully, he originally became It was a game. And then after he finished the game, he decided to shoot a film inside of the game that he had created, which is to me unique and machinima. I've never heard of that before. But anyway, he did a short shorter version as a film to send out and that's what they showed in Milan. And then he did a longer version, which is an hour long, the original one at the at the festival was like 20 to 30 minutes. So I'm really eager to watch the longer one and they're both at his website. Nick. Nick crocket two T's dot com. We'll put a link in the show notes. Anyway, I love the festival thought it was really well organized. I'm really glad it's there. We'll give you an update on what the what they're keeping in their archives. But congratulations to the people that organized it and thank you for making that happen.

All right, let's move on to our first question that came out of the Milan machinima festival. They interviewed Henry lowood, who's a machinima scholar and archivist Remember last week we mentioned his collection of [email protected]? Well, they put a question to him and the question, I'm going to put that question to you guys. Let's discuss it and then I'll tell you what Henry answered. According to some scholars and critics, machinima has now dissolved into the larger culture of streaming and game videos. Do you agree with this assessment? Or do you think this medium or genre is still uniquely positioned in the media landscape? Tracy, let's start with you. What do you what do you think? What do you make of that question?

Tracy Harwood  10:35  
Well, I think given where the Milan, machinima Film Festival tends to focus, which is on digital arts, rather than what I would call mainstream machinima, I think it's not surprising that a question like that is actually asked. And if you if you focus on that kind of content, that is where it leads you. You know, I think that's a natural conclusion to to reach in that kind of context. Do want me to answer the question? Yes. Mike? Well, okay. So I think we are indeed looking at, you know, a media landscape, which is very diverse, there are many digital formats. Now there is a lot of pre produced work. And it's, it's, you know, quite different from where machinima came from back in the mid 1990s, indie games were quite a unique means to create media content. And that really is no longer the case. There are many ways now that you can create real time media, including on your mobile or with digital cameras, re mixing other online content, but but games are still a platform that have a significant number of people that are using them to create content, not necessarily the sort of content that you might see at the Milan machinima Film Festival. But you know, as we've been doing our research for the podcast, we've come across tons of machinima content in that sort of traditional form. But what I do think if if there is a criticism of it, is that probably what there is now is a lack of creativity evidenced in the mainstream use of games of filmmaking tools. And, and I think, really, that with the breadth of other types of tools, such as mo cap, which are becoming increasingly accessible through through cost, and ease of use, and integration with other tool sets, I think really, you know, the tool sets don't really mean that there are better stories. And I think, it doesn't really absolve the responsibility of the Creator to learn the craft of storytelling, which I do see as a bit of a challenge at the moment, I think, you know, there's a lot of, you know, game based content, which is really what I would call let's play. And I think we're now in the realms where, where gains can be used as both narrative and performative, as well as abstract and literal. And I think a lot of the digital art that you're seeing is, is very well, it's art, and it's political. So there is quite a lot of that kind of content out there. So for me, what, what it what it raises, really, I think, is the nature of what the game is being used for. And I think games expose creators to a field of creative potential. And I think by saying that it's just mixed within general media landscape, misses the point of what what the game is doing. And and it's unique in the sense that it immerses the artist in a creative environment. And, you know, if you're, if you're quite skilled at that game, then you've got just enough challenge within it to keep a part of your brain to be on the lookout for something that's potentially very different. So that you can tell new types of stories or different types of stories or, you know, whether whether you want to call them stories at all, but things that are unexplored in those games. And, and just to add to that, you know, what we are now seeing is a huge amount of creativity, allied to indie games, and, and modding. We've seen we've we've seen quite a lot of that we talked about quite a lot of that on this show as well. So you know, I think there is a lot of potential there for, for machinima as we have known it in the past. And let's not forget that the machinima techniques of the past are now being used in more mainstream creative forms so they're being used. For example, in in theater, just this last week as well, the Royal Shakespeare company's dream was running, which was a retelling of pucks exploration of the of the forest and Midsummer Night's Dream. And what was interesting in that was the representation of some very interesting characters. And they were being performed in in real time using mo cat and using the Unreal Engine.

But apart from the the embodied performance using the tech, for example, what was the difference between what you were seeing there and the live real time performance that say red versus blue? Did at it within Halo at Edinburgh? fringe some some years back? Well, I think the difference is you now call that virtual production, but its roots is clearly in machinima.

Ricky Grove  15:53  
Yes.

Tracy Harwood  15:54  
So, you know, I think it's very much a piece of the art world games. Games are another tool for artists to address a set of issues. And think about an audience. And I think that's very evident in what we saw at the Milan machinima festival. Maybe I've talked enough, do you guys want to have a go? Oh,

Ricky Grove  16:17  
no, I like your ideas with your response. Phil, what's your take on that question?

Phil  16:22  
I think the more so to, to Henry's answer to it. I think the only part of it that I

would criticize, I guess is the only word that makes any sense is the use of the verb dissolved. I don't think that's the right verb. You could say eclipsed, you know, because the enormous growth of popularity in streaming and game videos and to some degree, machinima has always been part of a larger culture of recording and playback of games. You know, as we've we've talked about numerous times that that's it was that capability that had to exist before machinima could exist really, really. So it's always been a subset of that it's just that until until YouTube and and more so I think until fairly elaborate proliferation of high speed internet globally. Video distribution is no longer a problem. And it's it's it's a trivial matter for someone with with a desktop computer or laptop, to just instantly create video. Well, naturally, that's, you know, it to me that saying that machinima has been dissolved into that as a would be a bit like saying that game videos have been dissolved into the even larger, just record and share video phenomenon that has resulted from the existence of YouTube and those types of platforms. So I don't think dissolved is the is the word that I would have picked. But yeah, it's been eclipsed, I just don't think there's any reason to be insecure about that. I think machinima is still has a to use a goofy business term, a unique value proposition, if you will, that, that does set it apart. And I think that that, that is true, regardless of whether it gets the level of, let's say, adoption or recognition that that, you know, streaming and game videos get. if for no other reason, just that that, quite frankly, those those types of videos are just a whole order of magnitude easier to produce. And, and to, you know, we've always talked about machinima as one of machinimas advantages, being able to quickly produce something compared to or comparing it to, you know, rendering it out in 3d Studio Max or blender, right like that. Or the old days of, you know, the the legendary days of when Pixar was rendering Toy Story, it was taking three days to render one frame film concert like that, which we laugh at now. But like, that was the reality of it. And with machinima, it's like, well, hey, we could do this. Well, streaming is even a whole thing. beyond that. You could just if you've got the software set up, I could, I could switch over to my other computer right now. And start streaming from a video game five minutes for right now and be streaming with an audience of some kind to people probably could could be doing that. Well, I mean, how do you beat that? You know? And so you can you can be more spontaneous in that platform. And you can produce content far more frequently. Then, let's say you know, the kind of series that Damien's working on now where there's, there's just so much craft involved. And I'm not saying that that game videos are good streamers don't have craft they do. But it just doesn't require any render time, if you know what I mean, you know, it's, they may prepare some stuff ahead of time to like Ricky with the sound effects that we were playing with earlier, you know, where you can trigger that and the looping. So yeah, anyway, so that's, that's I think a big part of why that content has just exploded is because it's the ultimate in efficiency, you know, there there is there's no machinima process with Red Dead Redemption two that could compare in any way to getting in there and streaming something, you know, it just it takes way longer to do. And that's not a downside it's just it's they're, they're, they're, they're two very different things what the end result of those to a casual observer who only sees the pixels, they may not seem that different, you know, because the video games have a lot of craft built right into them. So even playing that game and showing it to someone can be just a magnificently beautiful experience and you you know, someone who doesn't know what goes into it would go wow, that's beautifully made. Whereas, you know, when when animations need to be tweaked, and mods are applied to the game in certain scenarios scripted or choreographed with with other players. That's, that's just that's a harder proposition. But I also think Usually, the end result is a piece of

well, either story craft or art, like what we saw what you guys saw at Milan. That's just it's a different end product. Then game videos and streaming, I happen to like both of them. You know, I love a good machinima film sale. So I really enjoy watching Let's Play videos. Maybe as much as if not more than my teenage son, which is a little embarrassing, but it's true. So and that's, and that's interesting, too, is that these game videos, people tend to look at them and think, Well, you know, it's just a bunch of kids. Now, you know, a lot of old fogies like me, grew up in the computer age, too, and are just as fascinated and entertained by those memes and jokes and all of that culture of video gaming, we get it. It's kind of exciting to be an old guy and get something that that the kids get to, you know, so there's a whole audience of that. I think greyscale plays is probably closer to my age than he is my son's. You know, a lot of these streamers are they're there. They're not kids. Maybe kids compared to us. But so anyway, that's that's just I've talked way too long for a tiny little thought, which is just I wouldn't say dissolved. Because dissolve to me, kind of is like the second cousin to disintegrated. I don't think that's what happened. You know, it's not Yeah,

here.

Ricky Grove  23:04  
Well, they're their entire...

Phil  23:06  
much bigger brother. That's all

right. Their entire festival sort of belies the notion that the machinima has dissolved. Yeah. Yeah. Damien, what is your? What are your thoughts about this question?

Damien  23:18  
I'm kind of similar. along similar lines, actually, the only thing I think dissolved is the word itself, but not the actual medium of telling stories to animate through real time animation or by capturing footage from a game and then, you know, adding your own sound effects and dialogue and all that other stuff that we like to do. So. So I think they're still there. It's more, it's more of an evolution of, of what we were doing before, if telling us stories, or experimenting or whatever kind of films we're doing, being able to stream is, is new. And it's kind of related. But it doesn't mean that the other, what we were doing before no longer happens, people are still using video games, or whatever game of their choice is to tell whatever stories it is that they want to tell. And then you have people who play those games and stream playing it. And they, they put on a performance because you have to talk to the people who are watching. And you have to react to what's happening in the game. Because if you're just sitting there, playing statically not reacting to it. That's not an entertaining video to watch, you have to respond to what's happening, which is the game and the audience reacting to the game and talking to you. And so it's just different. It's like television, you don't have I mean, you have like Game of Thrones, which is obviously a lot of money spent on producing all the costumes and having all the actors right. But tell the story, and then comparing that to something like Britain's Got Talent, which is another form of entertainment to great intelligence. People like both. Some people just like the Game of Thrones, some people just like the Britain's Got Talent kind of shows, it doesn't really matter. It's all television. It's just different. And I feel the same way with game based videos is someone streaming is something very different from someone telling a story. But it doesn't neither makes the other invalid. It's just different.

Phil  25:23  
Yeah, that TV comparison is great. Great, great, great,

Ricky Grove  25:27  
really good point of view. I think I think your comments point out that the question sort of betrays an assumptions behind it. The idea of uniquely positioned in the media landscape, what what exactly is the media landscape? You know, and the larger culture of streaming and game videos? I think the the questioner wanted to has a particular point of view and wanted to get affirmation for that point of view from the person that they're asking the question from. Frankly, I think that machinima like you've all answered exactly my my shared my thoughts. Exactly. I think back because we've been doing I've been doing this project on you, Hancock. I've been thinking a lot about Hugh's [email protected] And my time and Phil, you were there. Damien. You were there for a brief time towards the end. And that world was very different than the world that is out today. And once machinima took over and showed the larger community that you could make a ton of money off of this. It move machinima production and machinima creation to the larger the larger community, world community and the world marketplace. That changed a lot of things. And it also got came to the attention of academics, although it had come to the attention before, but it seriously came to attention then. And I think the questioner is sort of confusing the notion of the academic focus on as, as you pointed out, so well, Tracy, the academic focus versus the wider mass use of well, I I'm like you, Damien, I believe that there's no distinction between the two. I believe that they're just different types of ways to create it. And in fact, I think, here at the at our podcast, it's been really hard to choose a film because there's so many great films that I want to talk about. Yeah, I mean, I could easily come up with three films for each session we could do to our to film discussion, you know, because there's so many great films. So the idea that it's sort of dissolved into a larger media streaming and has been forgotten, I don't think is a is true. I think it's still it may not be positioned in the same way it was when it was machinima.com. Agreed. You know what I mean? If that's what the questioner thinks about in terms of positioning, people just make films, they don't worry about how their film is going to be positioned anywhere, or where it's going to sit or how it's going to sit. That's almost a marketing or commercial point of view, I think. But

Tracy Harwood  28:32  
I was going to add Ricky, you know, the thing is, there are so many games now, indie games, in particular, being released, that it's a very fragmented and very crowded marketplace. And I think the challenge would be if there was no game based machinima, a lot of these games developers would not survive. They just wouldn't be an audience for them without the role of creators. Putting examples of what that game is like out through machinima and machinima works.

Ricky Grove  29:06  
That's a good point.

Tracy Harwood  29:07  
The other thing I wanted to sort of add into this is, I think one challenge that we will face going forwards and we've said this for a lot of years actually, is the the tolerance level among viewers for poorly rendered content. And I think now with you know, the likes of unreal and unity, facilitating really high quality but you know, low or no cost production, then the bar is really going to be set ever higher. And that may weed out some of the weaker content. And I think that will be weeded out through what I would call platform algorithmic processes. If nothing else,

Ricky Grove  29:49  
Oh, I like that. In fact, I'm gonna give you a little great yeah.

Tracy Harwood  30:00  
Well, because people were a little bit like the baby outlaws, machinima that we talked about last time. What a great little film that that was, I mean, such high quality work, but basically produced by a guy in his bedroom in three weeks, albeit he got a lot of kit clearly to do it. But, you know, with the, the the tutorials and whatnot on online now, is that not within the realms of most people who are interested in one stick at something for an extended period of time? notwithstanding the fact that I think the craft of telling the story is kind of key. And where do you get the ideas? Yes, that's from that's the bit i think is missing. Really? Where do people get the ideas from?

Ricky Grove  30:47  
Yeah, yeah, I agree. My great. Well, Henry's answer was yes, he thought it did. machinima has dissolved into the larger culture of streaming game videos. I won't attempt to give you the his explication for that. I think they're going to put his interview online, but he believed that it had, as did the questioner. But then again, I think they were both in sort of the same academic mindset. And then answer was a foregone conclusion, I think as soon as it was asked. Anyway, let's move on into our second question. Let's Play videos. Now is that another type of machinima focused on playing games? Or is it a more significant type of machinima? Now interestingly, at the Milan machinima festival, there were several Let's Play videos, but they didn't call them Let's Play videos. They call them live performances by an artist. Now, I understand that because they don't want to say let's play because it links it to a rather messy hairy, stinky little mass movement. It doesn't sound so good. Academic, you know, it doesn't have that literary quality to it. You can't write let's play in a in a doctoral thesis, but you can write live performance by an artist. So now Phil, you were very interested in this you shared this Sims filmmaker did let's let's play using him as an example. How would you address that question? Is it just game playing? Or is it a more significant type of machinima?

Phil  32:28  
Yeah, I think with gray still plays and and a lot of it depends on how, how the Let's Play. I don't think there's just one type of Let's Play. Because I've seen everything on the map between the one that the type that Damien mentioned, where it's just the, the uninteresting type where it's just, there's this guy who I want to say he goes by the name of the Lorax, or something like that, from Dr. Seuss. Something along those lines. He's primarily Spanish speaking. I can see that from the what goes on in the chat, but he interacts with everyone by chat. There's no voice voiceover at all. It's just him playing Minecraft in this world, that he's been a single player world that he's been building, just him playing Minecraft. And then everyone's swell chatting with people. That's it. He's got like, 1000s of people tuning in every time that he does it. Why? You know, I be one of them. Why? I don't know. But it was just interesting. But I feel like that that is literally just a guy playing the game. And he happens to have a chat thing there. But there's no performance art going on. He's not doing like stunts or building crazy kids. He's just playing the game the way he wants to play it. And there happened to be some people looking over his shoulder. So that's at one end of the spectrum. At the other end, you have you know, gray still plays or there's a guy who does Let's Plays named z Stowe. And he's done Minecraft. And then now he does a bunch of like, kind of hardcore survival games where, you know, you're lost in the wilderness and have to, you know, survive the winter or whatever. And he varies his style. Sometimes he's playing as just a guy, hey, you're over my shoulder. And sometimes he's like, in character, and has set up these sequences of things to happen. That are unexpected, and he feigns surprised reaction to them. He's not the world's greatest actor. That's how I know that he's, you know what he's thinking. But it's still very entertaining. He's having a great time. Right? And it's, it's, it's worth, you want to tune in and see what's he going to do next? What's he going to try and pull, you know, a lot of stacks. And yeah, gray still plays. That's clearly a performance. I mean, he's probably he probably jokes around like that with his buddies in real life, but he's He's a comedian, first and foremost, playing this game. He's found this vehicle in The Sims four and in Grand Theft Auto, and in a whole bunch of other games that he does this with. It's the same approach, basically, you know, he's got certain voice inflections to users and certain phrases that he'll repeat certain recurring jokes that will come back up again and again, this kind of fan service. I mean, that's a performance art for sure. And a really good

Ricky Grove  35:27  
Yeah, yeah.

Phil  35:30  
There's also some people who do kind of a performance and and it's, it makes it almost unwatchable for me. There's a guy, I can't remember what his name is. I'll try and find links for all these that I've referenced. So we could put them in the notes. But he is somehow he's the first streamer when a new massive game comes out. So when Red Dead Redemption two came out. He was the first one streaming it like it was the day it was released. He's on there streaming it. And you know, 10s of 1000s of people are watching. cyberpunk, same thing. He's, and he basically just streams a full playthrough of the game. Wow, he's hamming it up and talking to the audience and right. And it's just, it's, I gotta be honest, which is horrible. I'll make it through an episode. But it's clearly got wide appeal, like, I was tuned in for I think he's just one of the I think he's a bigger dork than I am. He's, he's killing it be true. Yeah, that's, that's a bit much.

Tracy Harwood  36:38  
But you know, what...

Phil  36:39  
 some of them are...

They are performance artists, I think as puffy as that term seems. It is accurate to those who make it so. And then there's others who are just playing the game or doing it at various levels of skill that aren't very entertaining. And I think the view count is the barometer that ultimately sorts all that out. Yes, yeah, there are some very, very talented performance artists who vehicle games is just their their vehicle.

Ricky Grove  37:13  
Tracy, what were you gonna

Tracy Harwood  37:14  
say? I was gonna say was really what's different here is it to other forms of machinima is that it allows the creator to develop a personality. And that personality has allowed people to brand their content, which, which demonstrates a unique style that is, that is appeal to the likes of YouTube. You know, the YouTube twitch stream sort of teaching generation where the focus has really been on acquiring fans and followers. And these people in turn have become influencers in the gaming world. So the fact that they've got the first copy of the game out, it's probably because they've been given it by the publisher. Yeah, yeah. Because of their status. And, and it's their status, which is kind of key because that allows them to sort of transform that kind of symbolic value they have into kind of, you know, a value where they can extract economic value through monetizing the content by advertising and sponsorship. Yeah. Loads of folks come to the fore, haven't we, like PewDiePie, who's done a similar kind of thing was the number one streamer for years. And that's really, what pushed machinima Inc forward as well. It was that that whole development of the network channel partnership strategy, which allowed that to come to the fore. And they were basically just kids sign signed up to stream gameplay and talk to their mates about the game. They were doing all the advertising for the game publishers and developers. That's really what it is. Let us play is what it what it came from.

Ricky Grove  39:00  
Well, I find it interesting that there were two Let's Play videos in the machinima film festival that you I think we'll find unusual. The first one was Chris carriages, film viscera cleanup detail, called miles. And basically he's a programmer, an artist in California and he started and this he was inspired by other other YouTube video people that did it. They would basically go into a game and end up killing NPCs and then piling up their dead bodies into fantastic body piles, huge body piles. And this, the length of the film that they show there was 80 minutes of him very carefully going through the process and Hitman and others of shooting someone going and getting their body and then just putting it in a body pile until by the end of the 80 minutes. They have that This fantastic pile of 100 dead NPCs. Right, right. Then the second one was a really one that I actually liked a lot. It was by Camilla card, and it was called walking through walking against and it was shot in that beautiful game journey. Remember that one where the sort of interesting figure, robed figure goes through the desert. And winds around in the desert is a beautiful soundtrack at soundtrack one all sorts of award. Well, basically, I watched the film, it was about, oh, golly, 30 minutes long. And it was basically this figure going through the desert and falling and going through the desert and falling and moving around and going through the desert. And I was it seemed aimless and charming for the first 10 minutes. And after that it was boring. But I but I stuck it through. And then I listened to her interview. And the whole film changed for me because she said, she was really upset. She's Italian. And she was really upset about the second lockdown and depressed her. And she wanted to play a game to help her get a sense of freedom. So she started recording, playing journey. And she discovered that there were boundaries that the game creator soft boundaries that the game creator created inside of the game. And what she was doing in the game was exploring those boundaries. Now that completely changed my notion of what it was, I was seeing, and I became much more. And it also is probably the reason why I stuck through the entire 30 minutes. I just made an assumption in my head that this was boring, because I didn't see what she was actually doing. Because I was too subtle for me. I just missed it. But in her talk about it, I thought it was marvelous, and beautiful and soft. And it did give her a feeling of freedom from the lockdown that was her way of coping with it. So there's two examples of Let's Play. They're considered art. You know what I mean? Because they included them in this very close, tightly. Criteria festival, Art Festival, academic festival as let's play. So I do think that let's play has become a very interesting medium, especially compared to the early days in machinima in which there was no effort to hide the fact that you were trying to create an illusionary story. Father frags best, you didn't put yourself in that film. He didn't have you commenting on that. You created a fiction. That was a satire of sitcoms from the 50s. Well, that's what everybody else was trying to do. They were trying to do. fourth wall takeaway, the fourth wall and you're watching this fix fictional world, except for was all done in machinima. Well, that's changed. And now there's this awareness of the player playing. And it's almost like, the player doesn't play the game anymore. They're using the NPCs. They're they're relating to the NPCs in ways that are unique, and sometimes devious and strange, doing things that they couldn't do in real life.

Tracy Harwood  43:09  
You know, without

Phil  43:11  
there was a series in the mid 2000s. I want to say it was called Freeman's mind. Does it? Do any of you remember that? Yes,

Ricky Grove  43:21  
I remember. Yeah,

Phil  43:23  
it was a single player. Let's play of half life or half life two, I think with this guy, narrating what must be going through Gordon Freeman's mind as he's walking through that, you know, that opening sequence when you get off the train and the whole range? Right? Actually, I think I'm pretty sure it was half life one because it was the science compound that he was going through and all those Yeah, funny little NPCs with their random sayings that all right, right lab coat guys and barn energy officer and all that. But he's narrating like the thoughts in Gordon Freeman's head, of course, very comically. I can't remember what his name was. I want to say Ross something rather? Well, we'll have to.

Ricky Grove  44:05  
We'll have to definitely Yeah,

Phil  44:06  
that was a very early one where essentially, he hadn't modded the game at all. He wasn't doing it. He was just playing through the game in order and doing this really funny. Sometimes somewhat improvised commentary on the game, and it was hugely popular. And I think he ended up being he ended up having if I remember right, a channel on machinima.com. And they just my recollection of it is that they just with the terms of their contract, just squeezed all the enjoyment out of it for him and it kind of faded away.

Ricky Grove  44:46  
Yeah, no, but we understand. Well, we'll follow up on that. Make sure we, yep. Damien, have you. We haven't heard from you on this question. What What are you saying?

Damien  44:55  
Um, it's kind of hard to follow up on what you guys said. But So I'll use an example of last night, I've got a friend met at a convention, Atlanta Dragon Con. And one of her ways of dealing with the pandemic, because she can't meet any friends or do anything. He the usual social stuff is she started streaming. So that she had some kind of social interaction. So last night, she was playing plasma phobia. And what she did was she invited three people in the chat to go and play with. And that was one of them. So I joined in the game. And so you got this, let's play her performance playing the game reacting to all the scary things going on. And, but she's doing it with her friends as a way of hanging out with friends virtually when she can't do it in real life. And obviously, she couldn't hang out with me because I live 1000s of miles away as well, my understanding is the other two are playing live much closer. So this is a way for people to spend some time together. And there's a moment where we're being hunted by this ghost in this abandoned prison. So we're all whispering and getting really into your voice chatting as well. So we're whispering as if we really were hiding. And there's that kind of element to it as well, which I thought as I was thinking about that, and it's another part of machineries that's playing play, this is the social aspect of it. Yeah. And I feel like there was something I should mention. But there are so many different ways of doing it, because you can just sit and play the game. And you can just be yourself and say, Well, that was interesting. Or I'm going to do this or not say anything at all. And then there's what I just said, we were getting into it, to build the atmosphere, temporary, really there. And then there's putting on a bigger performance. And I mean, sort of planning out. Even if you're playing in a sandbox game like Minecraft, planning out what's going to happen, so that you kind of staged it so that when it happens, you can react to it like Phil was saying earlier. So it's just a broad way of producing content.

Phil  47:21  
I'll add to that real briefly. There is a let's player who goes by the name on YouTube of dream. And I'll be sure to link to his channel or one of his videos He is known for. He's one of the world record holders for Minecraft speed running. I don't think he's at the top spot right now. But he has been there several times, and earned quite a reputation that way. And he does, Let's Play videos with where basically, he has to stay alive long enough to complete all the objectives of Minecraft to kill the Ender Dragon as the ultimate one, while his four friends are on this in that same world, trying to kill him

the whole time.

And it's brilliant, because they are really funny, like just funny people. But there's also there's because I know the game fairly well. There's elements of it that are clearly they planned, planned out a bit, you know, it doesn't matter. It's still really, really entertaining to watch. And they've done several series of these where they call it man hunter or whatever. And he's, he's being chased constantly 

Ricky Grove  48:38  
have to check those out. Oh,

Unknown Speaker  48:39  
it's hysterical. And he's really, really terrific. And that's those are, those are part performance. And also part he's very skilled at the game. Like there's, there's no cheating going on, that it's not that type of fixing of events. But some of it is just it's too good to be true that the scenarios that involve ways that he outwits them or whatever, that you know, okay, there was some coordination there but I just don't care. I still find it very well done very entertaining. So I'll include links to that because it's it's it's for guys who know each other really well. Their friends, you can tell thanks. And they're they're doing a series of those videos.

Ricky Grove  49:20  
Yeah, it's how I train. Tracy, you have the last word on this?

Tracy Harwood  49:25  
Well, for me, machinima was always about community. And I think what you're, you're getting to there is that with let's play it's even more about community. So yeah, I think you know, where communities are forming, we're around whatever the the the game are, or whatever the whatever the practices are, or whatever the you know, the the the tightness of the network. It's still community at its heart, and it's something that I think it's often overlooked. When when you just look at machinima as an art form, you forget about that you know that that angle of it.

Ricky Grove  50:08  
Yes is key to it. Which was essentially the hell with hell, machinima became machinima community. That's how it was created. So even though it's changed in the communities tend to be satellites. Still, there's that providing sense of, we're all gamers. We're all going to have fun doing this, you know, and it doesn't make any difference how old you are. I've always thought that that notion that it's just a machine to make notion it's only those boys from 15 to 24 was always Are you kidding me? And I'm now trawling the steam every day going, Oh, God, I

gotta have that game. We're gonna have that game, you know, I'm worse than I would have been if I was 15. You know,

Phil  50:51  
you mentioned father Frank's best earlier, Ricky. All the all the actors in that the player characters that were in that were controlled by friends, a group of gaming friends. I still keep in touch with all of them to this day. Well, it was a private mailing list for years. And then when Yahoo groups went away, we turned it into a Facebook group. Some of them are listening to the show right now. I'm certain of it. So online OGF guys, you know, greetings. But yeah, we all keep in touch still. And that was a there were many just playing the game and having fun experiences of course that bought it. But that was a really fun experience where we all just show up on this set that I've designed and we're on battle comm communicator. Do you remember that used to be for voice?

Ricky Grove  51:41  
Yes,

Phil  51:42  
you'd have to run it as a third party thing while running the game. And we were talking on there and I'm directing him. Okay, now jump up and down. Okay, now shoot him. Crazy. I wish that I found to record that. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, the memories of that are I had more fun making that movie than I did any other one that I did, which most of the other ones I did were solo. Yeah, yeah. Community is huge. And essentially, you know, if there's a way to involve that in your creation, it's it's it really enhances the experience for sure.

Ricky Grove  52:15  
All right, we're going to listen to a foghorn before we get to our last question. foghorn sound effects thanks from freesound.org. We'll link it in the show notes. What the hell is NF t? Does it mean that a machinima creator could sell his work on a blockchain site and become a millionaire? A Millionaire? What do you think?

Tracy Harwood  52:58  
You sound like dell boy.

Ricky Grove  53:02  
According to Evan Ryan, who's will correct me I'm sure he will. It's just a it's just a momentary thing. It's just because they sold the $60 million work digital work of art as a non fungible artwork. Now I'd say everybody wants to get involved in but I'm wondering, and I've been doing research on NF T. And I'm curious what you guys think about it? Do you think it's a viable source for for machinima filmmakers to make some money off of their work?

Well, Oh, I see. You're all just jumping at this.

Phil  53:42  
I have not, uh, I'm lacking in full, a full technical understanding. Like, I've asked three different people to explain it to me. And they'll do so and even send articles and stuff and I still don't profess to fully get it. And I think it's maybe because I don't fully get blockchain yet. Right. I understand it. I could probably recite something to you, that would technically be correct. Even as I don't understand it. Well, here's what I do know is that I saw a headline yesterday that a man sold an NF T. of one of his farts and made $85

Ricky Grove  54:27  
Wow, wow. 

Phil  54:30  
and

Tracy Harwood  54:31  
sign up for me.

Phil  54:33  
And I, my wife then heard me talking about that and, and basically just, you know, was quite excited because she thought surely we'll be millionaires. Between me and my son. Anyway, that's, yeah, I don't get it. So I'm hoping that some of you understand a bit more about it. And can you tell us well, let

Ricky Grove  54:56  
me make a quick, quick, very fast definition. And FTS. refers to non fungible item. A fungible item is like $1. Bill, you can take $1 bill, they're identical. You can use them. They're all the same. A non fungible item is an item that's unique. So the notion is, is that you take this unique artist's creation, and you put it in a blockchain system in which they use to create Bitcoin type thing. And it makes it takes away the digital ability to copy it digitally, because it's recorded in the blockchain, so it restores its uniqueness. So rather than uploading it onto a website and saying, hey, you can buy this artwork for 2995, and then somebody steals it and copies it. You put it in a blockchain, which keeps track of its uniqueness. And so when somebody buys it, they buy they are assured that it's purchased as a unique item. Plus, there's a history of it keeps a history of its its purchases. So much like a painting in a gallery. They keep track of, you know, a Picasso lithograph where when was it first sold the next person that bought it, they have a history of all of that. That's what the blockchain does. Now, blockchain is hard to understand. I don't particularly get it. But I understand what it does. What I mean. So the question is, is that can a machinima filmmaker retain that unique aspect of their film, and sell it the My problem with it is is that machinima is essentially, as we were talking earlier community, it's about community. So you want to share your film, the idea of taking your film and putting it in a unique situation, simply because you want to make a lot of money on it runs counter to what most machinima people are going to want to create their machinima for. They want to put it on YouTube, they want to share it so that other people go, hey, that's great start a community that kind of thing. By using an NF T, it sort of defeats the whole purpose of making machinery in the first place. At least that's how I see it.

Tracy Harwood  57:15  
Yeah. And to add to that, the, it doesn't just because you've attached a token to it doesn't mean that it can't be replicated anyway. So there can be multiple digital copies, and it only becomes relevant when you sell the work. And then, you know, who who do you transfer that, that work to?

Ricky Grove  57:38  
I didn't realize that.

Phil  57:40  
Yeah, that was my question was was if Okay, so let's just let's do an example scenario. Here. I Ricky and I make a machinima film or, to keep it simple. Ricky makes a mission in the film. Good. does whatever they NFT thing is gets that and now he's got it this this film with the NFT. Yeah, but does anything about that stop someone from commenting or sharing another thing or, or even taking credit for it? Like, well, I realized that NF t would technically be like the equivalent of you write a song and you get it copyrighted with the US Copyright Office. But that, that still doesn't keep someone from, you still have to be able to afford to hire the lawyer to enforce your copyright. And most people can't afford that. So it's one of those things where I just I find myself wondering, where where does the true benefit fit of that actually show itself? Unless you're dealing in in

Tracy Harwood  58:51  
a market,

Phil  58:51  
 I don't want to be classist about it at all. But it seems like you've kind of got to have something worth spending money protecting and the money to do that protecting, who's going to enforce NFT? who recognizes it like with with copyright, if I copyright some works, eventually, in theory, I should be able to control the usage of that work for commercially through the copyright office that record, the Library of Congress has that record, they're assuming I can afford the lawyer and do all that eventually, that's considered proof. Well, who what organization what body considers NFT? proof? How is it enforceable? And I'm not saying that you guys should know the answers to this. These are just the questions that arise with me is with with copyright in the US or in the UK, we know who to go to ultimately, to enforce that there's a government body that says we will at least provide the proof you need. It's your job to enforce and protect it, but here's the proof, you know, and we are considered an authority that you can trust? Yes, this is a record, a real record in time, blah, blah. And it has all those same attributes of being a record in time, the blockchain helps authenticate that. But who actually will enforce this? who recognizes this as proof? And maybe it's just because it's so new? That the answer right now is nobody. But I guess I don't understand

Ricky Grove  1:00:27  
that as much as like,

Phil  1:00:28  
yeah, ultimately seems like for NF t to really work, there's got to be somebody who's going to officially enforce it, or provide a vehicle through which it can be enforced. Otherwise, what

Ricky Grove  1:00:45  
are you going to say, Tracy?

Tracy Harwood  1:00:47  
Well, I was going to say that it's it's dependent on the market. And so you know, the blockchain really is distributed ledger. technology. So it's, it's, it's enforced by the community that has contributed to the, to the ledger. But But if you if you take that to the next step, you have to think about that as a market. So. So for example, the guy that sold his art worked for nearly $70 million aware of you has something like 2 million followers on social media, but for the art itself to, you know, or anything for that matter to be of any value, you need at least one person that wants to buy it. Right. Right. That's, that's the principle of it. So if you simply wanted to make sure that the version of the work you created, is protected, then then maybe it has some merit to attach non fungible token to it. But maybe it'll never have value. That's, that's the other the other point, because if you don't have an audience, yeah, it's, it's fundamentally it's about market, which is where you see the work being offered on these, these so called markets, like super rare or various art, which is, you know, where you can exchange Ethereum or whatever for, or Bitcoin for, you know, for the for the artwork. And then it's added to, you know, the blockchain is added and your name is attached to it, or your ideas attached to it, and it and it's yours, but it doesn't stop anybody else copying it at all. But if there is a market for it, then, you know, just like, for example, there are umpteen millions of probably probably millions of posters of Mona Lisa, but there's only one original,

Damien  1:02:39  
I was gonna bring that up as an example, as well, because with digital content, relative video, or digital art, or whatever, there's a digital copy somewhere. And no matter how much you protect it, it's still very easy to copy Exactly. Whereas with the Mona Lisa, you can buy that, like you said, you can buy posters, if you want to copy, you can buy the post and have it on your wall, but you can't go and bind the original. And you can't copy the original, perfectly down. Even if you no matter how hard you try to paint the Mona Lisa, even if you got every single detail perfect, it would not write is that copy. Even the poster is not the copy x copy because it's the same image, but you don't have all the paint on it, it's just the printed copy of it. Whereas if I were to have a video and sew it online, no matter how much I've protected it, someone could easily copy that. And it'd be exactly the same copy as the one that's available. So with people watching videos online, if if there's a choice between watching the buying the original one for $1,000. Or going on to a streaming site where someone's copied it, and it's available for free, most people are going to choose the free option rather than pay for a video if it's just you know, just a five minute video, something silly. It's not worth $1,000 to a lot of people so they'll just go and get the free one if they want.

Ricky Grove  1:04:10  
So in essence what you're saying is that the NFT market is for investors.

Yes, or collectors or collectors collectors as opposed to artists trying to make profit off of their work.

Phil  1:04:24  
I think some of some of what Damien was just talking about just made me realize that's this concern over digital and the ease of making exact you know, bit for bit copies of something is very much what the objection that the music industry had to Napster and music going digital in the first place. I mean, a lot of people look at it go Why did they get on board with that earlier? This is why, you know, because when when music was a physical commodity, it was very Easy to make sure that everybody up the chain, including the artists got paid. When is digital, there's just it's really hard to enforce that, you know, and they've tried many different ways. But it's, it's it's it's impossible. And I think that that challenging aspect of digital media is what makes this this challenging. And the other thing that occurred to me Sorry to double up here. But as Tracy was answering, I realized that all of the questions and objections that I was posing to NF T, you know, who's going to enforce it? Who's the authority that will? Well, that's the same objections that people raise to the idea of Bitcoin in the first place, isn't it? Yeah. The whole idea of that it's a currency that is market driven, there is no central authority, there is no government backing it. And on one side of that argument, you have people who are concerned and frightened by that. And the proponents of Bitcoin go, No, that's an advantage. You know, so I think that there's probably some of that, and I may just not still, I think, I think my my lack of understanding may may be deeper than then, than just NFT. It may be that I still don't get Bitcoin either. So I've got some homework to do, I think because yeah, I I've got old fogies syndrome going on here.

Ricky Grove  1:06:25  
Well, if you're a machinima filmmaker, and you've been reading all this about mfts, and even seeing all this fabulous money that people have been making, I think we've all come to the conclusion that you really need to be cautious before you step into these waters, because that's really a world for investors, as opposed to a wave effect yet, you'd have better luck on Patreon than you would try to sell me your work and then

Tracy Harwood  1:06:52  
I was just gonna say if you really value the people that make machinima then you commissioned them to make machinima. Yes, as a as an investor, you don't do it this way. But the other thing I was going to say which I do have a massive problem with his his the the energy that is consumed through the creation of things like bitcoins and aetherium. And what have you. I was reading somewhere that, you know, because there there is a limited number of bitcoins that can be minted, I can't quite remember exactly what the figures are now something like 21 million, is it that that can only be the number of bitcoins that can be minted, and that there has already been something like 18 and a half million of them mined, which, which basically means that in order to find the unique code for them, you need more and more and more computing power to do it. Well. The computing power that's required to produce a single Bitcoin transaction now is something like 51,000 hours of watching YouTube. one coin $51,000 that's Bitcoin, which is, you know, probably one of the least economically sustainable, environmentally sustainable. I mean, when I was having that, that's almost six years of solidly watching YouTube, but wonder

Ricky Grove  1:08:21  
there's a graphics cardshortage. 

Tracy Harwood  1:08:24  
Absolutely. Absolutely. Needless to say, that is the other issue, of course, because where this stuff's being mined, is in China. Primarily it's been mined in China. Now there are there are more sustainable options emerging tease us I think is one that's that is all the rage this week. I don't know very much about it, but it's it has seemingly a slightly more sustainable footprint than some of these other digital blockchain and token systems if you like, but you know, that to me makes it totally unviable

Damien  1:09:06  
comparing the amount of energy required to mine a Bitcoin to some country's entire power supply.

Tracy Harwood  1:09:17  
Absolutely. Argentina. Wow. Yeah. And when you have for example, you know, situations where was it? Just last month, Texas was how many people were thrown into darkness there because a storm went through and the power grids couldn't handle it. You know, the demand for people just to keep their homes warm. I you know, this is this is not

Ricky Grove  1:09:41  
Yes, because it's not sustainable it right. Well, thank you that then that puts it in a very unique perspective. I appreciate that. Listen, listeners, if you have some ideas about NF. T if you want to tell us where we're we're off base or you have some particular ideas, please contact us You can see in the show notes, the various places you can leave a voice message and email. Our Facebook page also are a completely machinima.com website. Also in our loaded question, what do you think of that? And AI? We didn't talk about AI machinima creations last time. But we did talk about Let's Play videos. What do you think about that? And what are some of your favorite? Let's Play videos, please contact us because we fear for Phil's sanity, if you don't. Last time, he was at the breaking point.

Yeah, so

he's he's recovered, but he's still very touching goal. So please contact us and let us know what you think. And we appreciate you listening to us today. Please take care of yourself. We shall see you next time. Thanks, guys.

Phil  1:10:51  
Thank you.

Tracy Harwood  1:10:53  
Bye.

Ricky Grove  1:11:00  
Music for this episode. We opened with the completely machinima theme composed by Phil Rice, followed by a sound effect evil laugh by nan cussin and a foghorn by Andy Brennan both from freesound.org and our Closing Music was dead fro five h from n minus.com. Thanks for listening

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Damien's newest Episode of his machinima series, "Star Wars: Heir to the Empire" is out
Ricky's Report on the Milan Machinima Festival
Ricky's fav Milan Festival film "Fire Underground"
First discussion question, "..has machinima dissolved into the larger culture of streaming and game videos?"
Tracy's answer
Phil's take
Damien's response
Ricky's answer
Second question, "Is Let's Play just game-play or is it a more significant type of machinima?"
Ricky on a Let's Play machinima at the Milan Machinima Festival
Phil on shooting "Father Frags Best"
Third question, "What the hell is NFT?"
Tracy nails the NFT question