And Now For Something Completely Machinima

Completely Machinima 3.1 Machinima News April 2021

April 01, 2021 Ricky Grove and Phil Rice Season 3 Episode 1
And Now For Something Completely Machinima
Completely Machinima 3.1 Machinima News April 2021
Chapters
3:41
HL2 Game Sounds and Music
4:18
Fivars VR Festival
4:35
Cine Guru Cut Scene Cinematic Asset for Game Guru
6:10
Milan Machinima Festival 2021
6:39
Houdini Engine Free for Unity and Unreal
11:22
Start of Recommended New Games
13:09
City of Ghosts Netflix Animated Series
15:12
Cyberpunk 2077 Modding Introduction
15:58
Phil discusses his recam of "Thresh vs Billox"
32:19
Archive.org Machinima Collection
34:41
Phil Rice reads some "listener feedback"
And Now For Something Completely Machinima
Completely Machinima 3.1 Machinima News April 2021
Apr 01, 2021 Season 3 Episode 1
Ricky Grove and Phil Rice

And Now For Something Completely Machinima is a podcast devoted to machinima (movies made in game engines), real-time technologies, and virtual reality. This month (April 2021) we are splitting our 3rd podcast into four sections which will post once a week: Machinima News (April 1), Machinima Films (April 8), Machinima Discussion (April 15), and a Special “Build a Machinima PC” podcast (April 22). 

Episode 3 was produced by Ricky Grove joined by hosts Phil Rice, Tracy HarwoodandDamien Valentine.

Summary: Machinima News features updates, recommendations for new games, Phil’s re-cam of the famous Quake 2 match (Thresh vs Billox), Tracy’s publication with Ben Grussi called Pioneers in Machinima, information about Stanford’s machinima archive, comments we have received from our blog posts and a recording from one of our callers.

Contact and Feedback for this show: https://completelymachinima.com/#talk

Fully detailed and link-infused notes for this episode are available at:

https://completelymachinima.com/2021/04/01/season-1-episode-3-1-machinima-news-podcast-show-notes/

Time Stamps & Links

5:20 Microsoft Mesh 

6:10 Milan Machinima Festival 2021 

6:39 Houdini Engine Free for Unity and Unreal 

11:22 Start of Recommended New Games 

13:09 City of Ghosts Netflix Animated series 

15:12 Cyberpunk 2077 Modding Introduction 

15:58 Phil’s recam of famous Quake 2 match “Thresh vs Billox” 

19:20 Tracy Harwood’s new book “Pioneers in Machinima”

 Book: Pioneers in Machinima: The Grassroots of Virtual Production [Paperback]

Vid: Sponsors vs Freeloaders

Vid: Rooster Teeth’s Red Vs Blue (Ep1)

Vid: Diary of a Camper

Vid: The French Democracy

Vid: Stolen Life

32:19 Archive.org’s Machinima Collection

Machinima: Free Movies: Free Download, Borrow and Streaming: Internet Archive

34:41 Phil Rice on “Listener Feedback” and the poignant message from Tampon Insertion Gallery, a podcast listener bot.

Note: Music credits are spoken aloud at the end of the podcast

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

And Now For Something Completely Machinima is a podcast devoted to machinima (movies made in game engines), real-time technologies, and virtual reality. This month (April 2021) we are splitting our 3rd podcast into four sections which will post once a week: Machinima News (April 1), Machinima Films (April 8), Machinima Discussion (April 15), and a Special “Build a Machinima PC” podcast (April 22). 

Episode 3 was produced by Ricky Grove joined by hosts Phil Rice, Tracy HarwoodandDamien Valentine.

Summary: Machinima News features updates, recommendations for new games, Phil’s re-cam of the famous Quake 2 match (Thresh vs Billox), Tracy’s publication with Ben Grussi called Pioneers in Machinima, information about Stanford’s machinima archive, comments we have received from our blog posts and a recording from one of our callers.

Contact and Feedback for this show: https://completelymachinima.com/#talk

Fully detailed and link-infused notes for this episode are available at:

https://completelymachinima.com/2021/04/01/season-1-episode-3-1-machinima-news-podcast-show-notes/

Time Stamps & Links

5:20 Microsoft Mesh 

6:10 Milan Machinima Festival 2021 

6:39 Houdini Engine Free for Unity and Unreal 

11:22 Start of Recommended New Games 

13:09 City of Ghosts Netflix Animated series 

15:12 Cyberpunk 2077 Modding Introduction 

15:58 Phil’s recam of famous Quake 2 match “Thresh vs Billox” 

19:20 Tracy Harwood’s new book “Pioneers in Machinima”

 Book: Pioneers in Machinima: The Grassroots of Virtual Production [Paperback]

Vid: Sponsors vs Freeloaders

Vid: Rooster Teeth’s Red Vs Blue (Ep1)

Vid: Diary of a Camper

Vid: The French Democracy

Vid: Stolen Life

32:19 Archive.org’s Machinima Collection

Machinima: Free Movies: Free Download, Borrow and Streaming: Internet Archive

34:41 Phil Rice on “Listener Feedback” and the poignant message from Tampon Insertion Gallery, a podcast listener bot.

Note: Music credits are spoken aloud at the end of the podcast

Completely-machinima-episode-3-1-machinima-news-april-2021

Total time 42:58

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

machinima, people, game, Rooster Teeth, book, films, story, node, mods, community, upload, thought, Tracy, Phil, hear, Quake, explores, Cyberpunk, VR, writing

SPEAKERS

Damien Valentine, Tracy Harwood, Ricky Grove, Caller Dimitri, Phil Rice, ANFSCM

Tracy Harwood 00:00

And Now For Something Completely Machinima

ANFSCM 00:03

[Phone rings] You have reached the offices of... we are all out daydreaming, please leave a message and we will get back to you as soon as we can. Have a nice day. [bleep]

Caller Dimitri 00:25

Hello. Hello? Yeah, this is Dimitri. I was wondering about the $1,000 I have many Grand Theft Auto 5 machinima with headshots and crazy driving you know into pedestrians [hahaha]. So, do you pay 1000 per video because I make a lot of these things in it that just like you know say they're crazy violent but you know the funny. They're kick-ass kind of thing, no sex though. I can make those if you like or you know cuz there's a lot of nude mods for GTA 5 you know? Can you pay fast because well you know, money is good and the most best for me here you know, in the err.... well that's it. This is Dimitri address is 'smash face at bill u dot r u', that's 'bill u dot r u'. Hey, I make good machinima shit, you know, and this is perfect for me. It's perfect. So have a great day. Alright!

Ricky Grove 01:42

And thank you for that call, Dimitri. We welcome any calls any contacts. Phil, will be talking a little bit about viewer feedback later. We'll be sure to get that message to the machinima people to get your question answered. This is And Now For Something Completely Machinima. We're happy to be here with my excellent friends and co-hosts Tracy Harwood [Hi], Damian Valentine [Hello there], and Mr. Phil Rice [hello]. Phil, I want to thank you very much and congratulate you on doing such an excellent job on episode two. I thought I had worked really hard on the first episode, but my god, you really knocked that one out of the park. Thanks for all that hard work on it. Thank you, a lot of fun. 

Damien Valentine 02:32

Excellent work. 

Ricky Grove 02:34

So we're going to be mixing it up this time a little bit. Rather than have a very long podcast with our news or films in our discussion and interview. We're going to break it up into separate podcast sections. This podcast is going to be focused primarily on news. And then we're going to release a week later our discussion on films along with the interview with Slovo Strangeovich. The artist previously known as M Dot Strange, and then we're going to have the third podcast, which is our group discussion. And we've got some other fun interviews lined up for you in the future as well. 

So let's get started with the machinima news. And what we're doing is we're looking at news items that we think are relevant to machinima filmmakers, and real-time media creators and VR. So some of these are just going to be simply announcements and others are going to be items that we discuss, and you'll figure that out as we go along. So getting started, I came across a really interesting YouTube collection of all the Half Life 2 sounds at YouTube, which you can download. Long ago, people modded Half Life and they made it available, but I hadn't seen it on YouTube and there were some really interesting sounds on there. Here's one: [Attention! you have been charged with 27 attempted crimes]. There's some great stuff you get the all the Overwatch all of the dialogue, all of the music, all of the sound effects. It's really terrific. I like it a lot. 

Then also Tracy pointed out the Fivars International VR Film Festival, which is coming up. VR, now that the equipment has actually gone down to a more affordable amount, there's going to be a lot more people making film festivals. This looks really interesting. We'll provide the link in our show notes. And then also Cini Guru has made an in-game cinematics application for Game Guru. Now Game Guru is a sort of Steam-like company that releases a variety of games and what they've done is they've sort of taken a chapter from Nvidia's Omniverse and are making a in-game cinematics or machinima tool for the games that are released in Game Guru. It looks pretty good, I like the way it's laid out. It's got some excellent tools for animation and lip sync. I'm not sure... It's still in development Game Guru, and they only have a few games. If they do really well in the future, I think this might be an interesting way to create machinima. Check the link in the show notes. 

Also, Microsoft Mesh is now a way to work together in mixed reality and VR. It is a way of doing meetings, since so many people because of the COVID plague have all gone to online connecting, Microsoft has made it easier for people to do meetings using mixed reality or virtual reality. So say for example, if you bring up rather than just showing a graph of a table, you have a information data table, you can actually show the real data in real-time or if you want to show a model you can show the model in mixed reality, or in VR. This looks to be like a very interesting way to connect with people, possibly a way to collaborate in machinima production. We'll see. 

Also, the Milan Machinima Festival starts next week from March 15 to the 21st. Now the Milan Machinima Festival is really focused on high art machinima, some of which is inscrutable, but some of it is very interesting. And I'm looking forward to attending it next week, and I'll give you a report on what happens, the machinima that's produced and the panels. It's all online, and it's free as well. So if you want to go take a look. 

The Houdini engine is now free for commercial use in Unity and Unreal. Now, for those of you who don't know who what Houdini is, Houdini is a long term, 3d application that is node based, and they were doing node based creative tools long before anybody started bringing node workflow into any other applications. In fact, they spawned it. And they became extremely used in Hollywood film production, high end VFX production, because the node based workflow is so specific, you can go in and take out two nodes and put in two other nodes in order to adjust it to change it. And it's just a much easier way to work. However, the learning curve on node based stuff is just like Mount Everest, it's really, really hard to get through it. I spent a year working with Houdini and I had a real hard time mastering it. However, the benefit of this is that you can take that workflow and plug it into Unreal or Unity and it will allow you to have greater control and beautiful renders in each of those game machines, so and they've made it free as well. So that's a significant update for those people who are real mod nerds and who don't have a problem with learning a node based architecture. 

Phil Rice 08:15

Hey, Ricky at risk of betraying just how dumb I am with regard to 3d, is there any way to clarify for maybe other people out there who, like me, don't know specifically what you mean by node based? 

Ricky Grove 08:30

Okay? Sure, of course. A node represents a certain function or action that occurs in a 3d application. So for example, I want to create a box. So you're modeling. So you use a node that says box. Now, in order to alter that box, you use a second node that says, I want to make this box 10 feet high, four feet wide and two feet deep. You add that node to the first node and that changes it then. Then you want to add a material node. So you go to the third node, and that node allows you to add the material to it, and on and on and on. So what you do is you have a chain of actions. Think of it this way, you know, when you go through a 3d application and you're modeling something or you're or you have a workflow, each phase of that workflow you would consider as a node. So rather than making it all one thing, Houdini breaks them down into separate chunks. Now, that makes it easier for especially VFX people who have to change things all the time, because if you did it as a regular workflow, you might actually have to go back to the beginning and start all over in order to get the change that somebody wants. Like, say an executive producer says 'no, no, we can't have the blue in that smoke; I want red in that smoke' and if you don't get it you're going to get fired. So rather than having to go back and redo big sections of it with a node based architecture, you just go back and substitute one node. Makes it much easier to work. However, it's just really hard to wrap your mind around a node based workflow. Like I said, I spent almost a year on it and I did manage to make some stupid boxes and put an animate them and put some materials on them but that's pretty much about it. 

Phil Rice 10:33

When can we get back the release on that Ricky? Is that a sound design part or... 

Ricky Grove 10:39

Yeah, that's a that's one of my lifetime projects. Maybe I'll put it on my headstone, you know, push the button, and it comes up. So a couple of things that... I think so, it's one of those things good to do. So I don't I don't think a vocal explanation of it really does its justice. Yeah, look at see how it works out. There's lots of really interesting YouTube explanations of node base, I'll make a note to maybe we can leave a link to those in our show notes. Yeah. 

Phil Rice 10:51

I appreciate it, I still do not at all understand it, but it's not. That's no flaw in your explanation. I just, it's it's a different paradigm. [Yeah] Its probably something that I would understand better by actually getting in there and doing it. But I'll be honest, I don't think I'm going to do that. 

Ricky Grove 10:51

And then before we get into the discussion, I want to talk about a few interesting game releases that are coming out. 

The PC game Sunlight is a really interesting game that's coming out in 2021 in which players explore an atmospheric forest as the story unfolds through a voiceover from trees. The visual look of it is excellent. It's an open world and might be an interesting thing for machinima producers. 

Also, there's another interesting game called Medium which I like a lot and it is a supernatural game about a person who has a medium. It points in the game, there's a split screen that shows real-life and then life in the other world. It's an open world game, and mods are starting to show up on Nexus. It's absolutely gorgeous. I think something can be done in it, even if it's only photography. It's just a beautiful game. 

And then also, I'm really happy to see that there's a great indie game 2021 round-up on YouTube, which I like a lot which we'll link to in the show notes. 

A game that's been in development that I just love and I can't wait to play it is called Death Trash. It's a pixelated top down game. I know. I know. I just love that title. It's a pixelated top down game that looks amazing and very strange. Maybe we'll put the trailer to it in our blog. 

And then also one of the top games that everybody's looking forward to is Sable. It's a 2d Mobius looking open worlder that's science fiction focused. I love the look of this. I think there are gonna be some mod tools that are coming up for us. 

And then also, I'd like to recommend a great, just absolutely great, 2d animated series on Netflix, called City of Ghosts. It combines 3d photographs of Los Angeles with 2d characters and it's by Elizabeth Ito. She worked exclusively on Adventure Time. So anybody who knows Adventure Time will know it's a wild rollicking but fun series. This series explores various Los Angeles neighborhoods. Her goal is to sort of get people to realize Los Angeles is more than just the sort of cliched notion that people have of it. She explores Korea Town, she talks about various sections of LA that you don't hear about. And one of the things that they do, which I think is a real inspiration for machinima filmmakers, is the people that... ostensibly the stories about three kids who put together a ghost squad, and they go up and they try to find ghosts in the city, and then the interview the ghosts. Now, the ghosts are unlike any ghosts you've ever seen before. They're absolutely wonderfully rendered. And what they've done is they've gone out and they've actually found non actor people to come in and tell their story 'a la' documentary style and what they do is that they shaped the look of the character to to look like the person who's talking. It's improvised script, which means they're not writing out all of that script. So the quality of those of the dialogue and the stories that they tell are so rich and combined, combining that with a 2d and the 3d background. I highly recommend that series even though it isn't machinima. It's a great inspiration for how to put together unusual and interesting things. We'll make sure we put that up in the show notes. 

So, what I want to do is close out my part of it with talking about the news item that I've got, which is a comprehensive introduction to Cyberpunk modding and VR streaming with Cyberpunk modding at Nexusmods.com. Nexus Mods is a great site for learning about modding and games. Machinima came out of a modding community. In fact, the only way you could actually do machinima initially was through recams, which was, you know, go in Quake and record all of the physical movements of everything and then go in and re-camera it. Character becomes the camera and then they can follow it. Phil, you did some really interesting early re-cams and what you did matches between various PC gamers, right? 

Phil Rice 15:58

Yeah. I'll talk about one of them. That's probably was the best known at the time. There was a match, a competition match between Dennis Fong he went by the gamer tag Thresh. He was at the time considered arguably the world's best quake player. He's the one who actually played Quake in a tournament against John Carmack, creator of Quake and beat him in it, and won from him his Ferrari. This was this match was going to be the first time that he would be playing Quake 2, the new version. And Planet Quake, which was the kind of community around that at the time recorded the demo match from both perspectives. But the demo, the mod that they were using for recording it broke. And so they had this demo with all the data of the entities moving but you couldn't watch it. It was unwatchable, like the camera didn't point where it was supposed to and didn't follow the characters. And I just happened to hear about because I wanted to see that really bad. And so I, they, I basically got in touch with them and got the demo. And over a weekend re-cammed it to where you could actually see what was happening, and then released it. That's kind of a goofy thing to say about something that's not ever really earned me a dime but it launched my career, so to speak. It had, I don't know, 1000s of downloads. That wasn't because of me it was because of who was in it. But yeah, that's what got started me in re-camming. And from there, it became, well, let's, let's look at this match from a different perspective than just through the eyes of the character. Let's get some third party views and stuff. 

Damien Valentine 17:42

I remember watching that. Yeah, I remember watching that I had no idea you were the one that fixed it. So I remember hearing about...

Phil Rice 17:48

It was 1998.

Ricky Grove 17:51

Yeah. Oh, it was great. It was really great. I enjoyed it was one of my first introductions to machinima. And I just thought it was marvelous. And you couldn't have done that without the modding community. Early in machinima the modding community we're also machinima filmmakers. Now after the debacle of Machinima Inc. that whole notion of modding for machinima sort of slid away into the into the ether. Well, I think, I think it's coming back. And this Cyberpunk modding introduction I think is really good. Cyberpunk is a broken game but it still has a lot to offer. This introduction is not only a written introduction, but there's lots of videos that are included on it. At Nexus Mods, I also noticed that there were some mods coming out for some of the games that I had... Medium that I had announced earlier, there are three four mods for that. For example, there was somebody that thought that the contrast in the game was too low, and they wanted to make a little bit brighter. And so they created a shader and they brightened it up. If you want to brighten up the game, you download this mod, you put it in your game directory, and bingo, you've got a slightly brighter game. So I'm really happy to see that. Also, if you're interested in doing machinima in Cyberpunk, I would recommend checking out this course, this introduction, it's really good and also other interesting mods there. 

All right, Tracy, I think you've got something interesting that you'd like to talk about.

Tracy Harwood 19:28

Well, yes, some really exciting news from some stuff that I've been working on for a really long time. I'm really pleased to say that the book that Ben Grassi and I have written on the Pioneers in Machinima where is now available for pre-order, yay! Months and years of work have gone into that there's, I think between Ben and I, we've got about 25 years worth of endeavor invested in that. I's a huge amount of work. It's, you know, it's telling some of the very early stories about the pioneers in machinima. And apparently the first copy of it has already been ordered by a gentleman named Reece Watkins. Now, I don't know if any of you've got really long memories on this one, but Reese was one of the creators of the machinima series that spoofed fan behaviors of Rooster Teeth's Red versus Blue, made in Halo, and it was called Sponsors versus Freeloaders, which ran between 2004 and 2006. At least I think, or we think, Ben I think that Reese is the first one to have ordered it - and it was him that let us know that the book was available to order, in fact, so thank you, Reese. Appreciate that. Absolutely, it's, it's, I have to say it's somewhat ironic, I think, looking back at the series now that given that Rooster Teeth have now monetized their content, and all but abandoned machinima. It's kind of ironic that Reese's has been investing in this in this book. But I think what's kind of interesting is the way that Rooster Teeth... the reason I mentioned is because we've got a chapter on Rooster Teeth in the book, which is where Reese's contribution is also in there. And it's somewhat ironic that Red Versus Blue is now in fortnight, which is very reminiscent of the original Blood Gulch series. So they've got this creative map in there that they've just put in there. Suffice to say, we missed that in our book, it was a little detail that came out after we finished writing it. But the story of Rooster Teeth and the backstory to Red Versus Blue is something that we've written in quite some detail in, there's quite a big chapter in there, in the book on it, and there's a whole load of other stuff in there as well. But yeah, it's great. I'm really pleased that it's finally published.

Ricky Grove 22:05

You did a fantastic job, I got an advanced copy of it. And I was I was sort of rushed. I wasn't able to read it word for word, the entire thing. But there were four chapters, I read completely, two that I read twice, including the Rooster Teeth chapter, and then the Hugh Hancock chapter on Machinima.com and I just thought they were fascinating. You know, I pride myself on my knowledge of machinima history and I was, you were schooling me, I just didn't, I had no idea that some of those things, especially with Rooster Teeth, it was just amazing. I thought your complete your mastery of all of the details was excellent and also your quoting, there's extensive quoting of people in it, which I think is really great. It adds that kind of veracity to it. It lessens that impression. Well, this is how I think this history is, it is much more objective and I really, really liked that a lot. It's a great book, I can't wait, I'm going to be the second person in line to pre-order

Tracy Harwood 23:08

Thanks for for that. Appreciate that. I mean, one of the things that we really set out to do with it was to tell the story from the, you know, the original people's perspectives, obviously, you know, we didn't get a chance really to do that, because Hugh had already passed away. But we tried to reflect the you know, the voices of people that were really involved in those early days through the lens of a couple of key endpoints or inflections into it. So, you know, Machinima.com, the website, the original parts of it, and then the way it was taken over and what happened to the community was, was one aspect of it. The Rooster Teeth story, which is really interesting story, because, you know, they never came out of the same place that a lot of the machinima community did. So we tried to tell that story. Needless to say, they themselves wouldn't speak to us, but lots of folks would. And then a couple of other stories as well. The French Democracy was one that we we... Do you guys remember Peter Rasmussen as well, Stolen Life? [Oh yes, my goodness]... we put a lot of effort into that one as well, because that is a story that wasn't or hasn't really often been told, but was also very influential in some of the, the, you know, the ways that he worked and the way that he worked with the community in the very early days of it, which I know, Phil had a lot of involvement with, with Peter. So did Hugh as far back as 2000 I think you can go back with some of that story. And so yeah, I was really pleased with the way that it came together. Ben's knowledge is totally encyclopedic so it's great that we've got him on the podcast, as well to tell us some of the huge amount of little anecdotes and stories that he's collected over the years, right from the very early days. So it's great fun to to work on, on a book where we were able to let the story emerge and tell itself it's not really an academic book. I didn't really write it as an academic book. I wrote it as an ethnographic kind of historical account of things that actually happened by the people that were involved in the story.

Ricky Grove 25:27

Yeah, even though it's an academic publisher, it's not an academic read. Absolutely. Tell me quickly. What period of time do you cover that you consider Pioneers from the earliest days of machinima to..

Tracy Harwood 25:40

Yeah, well, we we, yeah. Okay, so we started as far back as we could. 96 ish. Before [Diary of a Camper], yes Diary of a Camper absolutely but a little bit before that too because, you know, Diary of a Camper although it's, you know, badged as being the first example it isn't perhaps really the first example you've got the whole demo scene that kind of came before it. And and then we kind of we, we detail the story in a lot of detail up to the formation really of YouTube. And, then we kind of skip big chunks of the way that the community evolved once Machinima Inc. developed its network channel partnership strategy. But we also wanted to bring it up to date a little bit. So we, we came right up to date, as far as I think we finished writing in November, September, October, November time, I think. The main chunks of the stories that we brought right up to date. So that was with Rooster Teeth, and also with Machinima Inc. and the rest had contained periods of time. So The French Democracy was primarily 2005 2006 2007, that kind of story unfolded, and some of the impact of it was felt. Well, you know, we talk a little bit about how Sarkozy was part of part of the story in there. So we talked a little bit about politics in there. And that took it up to 2012 ish. And we, in terms of the Peter Rasmussen story. Well, you know, Peter, very sadly died in 2007 and we talk a little bit about the impact of his legacy really, which took that story up to almost to present day actually, because that's, that's kicked off a whole way of thinking about filmmaking in Australia that's still going on today. There's still people working in machinima as a as a consequence of that, too. So we try and bring it up to date. Although, you know, obviously the machinima story in the way that it's evolved and the many strands of it is, is huge and vast. We could not possibly hope to do everybody justice in it, which was the real shame of it. We've definitely got other books I think if we can figure out how to write them.

Ricky Grove 28:24

Yes. Because they're just terrific. I really, really enjoyed that book. I can't wait to sit down and do a thorough read all the way through it from beginning to end because I think the cumulative effect of the book is very, would be a very interesting thing to experience.

Tracy Harwood 28:40

Yeah, I mean, one thing that we did as we were researching it, there was, we wrote an alternative beginning with machinima, which, you know, I think will be intriguing to a lot of people. But it's very clear that machinima was also emerging as a creative form, outside of the community, with people trying to figure out how to monetize what the interest in it might have been the early as the 90s

Ricky Grove 29:11

That was a theme that I really liked in the book, that kind of that that suis generis in a community, and then the sort of slow discovery by the larger commercial world of its money making possibilities and that effect on the community that it began with, I thought you covered that brilliantly. And it's something that has been on my mind quite a bit because I actually left the community because of the debacle at Machinima.com. And it was fascinating, and I just paid no attention to it. So it was fascinating for me to learn that interim that I paid no attention to, the commercial world how its involvement in it, and the... Ben pointed this out in his interview. In fact, it might be good to include Ben's interview in this particular episode I think I think we'll do that. But he pointed out one of the things that he liked a lot was that he made me understand is that even though I'm apprehensive and annoyed at the way the machinima community was handled, there was still another community of machinima creators that were created at Machinima Inc. who benefited from all of that, to an extent because they were given jobs, they were able to create stuff. I was looking at the site the other day where you describe your own, what your job is like. And there were quite a few people Machinima Inc.'s thing that says I really liked working there was really friendly. If you had an idea, you could bring it to people and they would all discuss it and you could realize it together. And it made me think well, yeah, that that, that probably happened to those people. And even though we parody them with our satires and everything, there was a certain amount of good in the community that they created. I think you've managed to capture some of that in the book, and I'm grateful.

Tracy Harwood 31:06

Thank you, of course, Damian and Phil haven't really seen the book. So apologies for that.

Ricky Grove 31:11

Well, that's okay. I mean, we'll just get them free copies and send it to them and they can delay their comments till later! Yes, it's really excellent. Terrible cover though. That publisher should have just given it to me, man, I could of made a better cover than they came up with. Well, it's just, it's one of those academic covers. This just drives me crazy because people who shop by cover are gonna look at it go, I'm not gonna read that. That's academic. 

Tracy Harwood 31:42

You're gonna kick me for saying this, but it was the cover of the brochure that I put together for the 2007 European Machinima Festival.

Ricky Grove 31:55

Uh oh!

Phil Rice 31:56

Yeah, I recognized it.

Ricky Grove 31:58

I stepped in that one didn't I? Did I apologize?

Tracy Harwood 32:03

Not a problem.

Ricky Grove 32:05

Still hit the cover, but I apologize. Oh, by the way, I wanted to mention to you that when I mentioned the Diary of a Camper, we watched that recently, on Archive.org which has, you mentioned this in the book, which is what led me do it originally, but they have well over 200 films of machinima films in a machinima collection at Archive.org. That goes back to 1996 all the way up to 2018, although quite a few of the last three or four years are just promotional crap. But you can get a lot of classics they have, for example, they have most of the films that were created by Michelle Pettit Mee and the Britannica Dreams Production company, including The Snow Witch, which is fantastic film, so if you're looking for a central archive, where there's lots of machinima films, that we'll put the link in the show notes to Archive.org and I think you'll find it hours of fun, as they say, in the toy world, hours and hours of fun.

Tracy Harwood 33:13

And I'm thinking you can still upload content to that Archive as well. It's an Internet Archive project that's being run out of Stanford University, isn't it? [Right] I think I think I'm right in saying that run, managed by Henry Lowood, is that correct? [Yes.] So any films that have historical interest can be uploaded there if you still, you know, the trouble is, where are they still in existence because most of us didn''t keep them. So however, the nice thing is, Ben did quite a lot of them. So, you know, we could just ask Ben whether you can upload a copy of any of the old films that we we all identified?

Ricky Grove 33:58

Yeah, we'll have to check with him. Maybe we could get him to do some of the Archive.org uploads because, like I said, the last couple of years or promos, apparently Henry is not monitoring it carefully, because some of them are obviously not of historical significance. They're just promotional videos for whatever. They're good, but just worthless junk. All right. That's the news that I have. Is there anything else you guys want to talk about? Damian? Phil, sorry to leave you out of this conversation so much this time? 

Damien Valentine 34:33

Phil has something he wants to talk about? 

Ricky Grove 34:35

Oh, that's right at the end, he wanted to talk about people getting in contact with us and the viewer feedback. Excuse me.

Phil Rice 34:43

Yeah, absolutely. Each episode we try to prominently call attention to the fact that we really value your feedback you the listeners. We want to know what you think of what we're doing and what you'd like to hear about or if you have a question that you'd like us to wrestle with or discuss on air, we would absolutely love to hear from you now we we haven't gotten no feedback by any means. We've heard from a few different artists and filmmakers. Here's just a few just and basically I mentioning you here this isn't the only mention that you may get this just to let you know to kind of acknowledge hey, we've received your contact we may end up discussing you or your work later on the air or also watch our blog if you don't know we've got a blog, where Ricky and I and Tracy and all of us at some point contribute articles there. So we got contact from Peter Blood who's been making machinima in Napoleon Total War and honestly, I just have not had time to look at that yet, Peter, but we did get your your message and forwarded around amongst ourselves. So we will be getting to you. Another filmmaker Alexo, who has been apparently doing an independent machinima show for 13 years, which is like immediately like sent, I heard like pages rustling on Tracy's microphone, I'm just trying to figure out where does that fall in the history; is that the longest thing ever running, you know, just so you definitely got our attention. And we're going to take a look at that. We heard from a visual artist who goes or artists name that she goes by as Tizzy Canucci. And she actually met Tracy at one of the film festivals, machinima film festivals years ago. So we're interested in exploring and looking into that. As far as on the on some of the Facebook Places places, excuse me, Facebook, places where we post our content. The most notable feedback that comes to my mind, and not about you guys is Evan Ryan, who we actually mentioned, when his films, I believe, in the very first episode, talked about the film he made with Nightmare Puppeteer. But he gave I mean, he just went above and beyond in terms of detail on his feedback. And that mean, that's exactly what we're looking for, you know, is what are you liking? What do you not liking with what we do. And I really appreciate your support Evan. Evan's, a friend of mine for another show. But he's one thing you can count on to be as honest. And I just really appreciate that, the frankness, that it's when I get feedback from him. I know, he's not just, you know, patting me on the back to make me feel better, or whatever. He's going to tell me, Hey, this is great. And hey, actually, a film that I released last year, he says, I hate it. I don't like it at all. So I love that. I love that. So anyway, we would love to have more feedback, and it doesn't have to be lengthy. But we're really looking for ideas and and looking for an indication of what you like on the podcast in terms of, you know, the duration of the episodes and what we talked about and, etc, how long Phil keeps running his mouth, you know, those kinds of things. We have been getting some comments through the blog. And I just wanted to give you some examples. And these are mainly just to illustrate that we really need to hear from you. And maybe a little bit less from from these folks. The first comment, I've got five to go through real quick here. The first comment comes from someone by the name of Erotique who says 'very good blog article, thanks again, keep writing'. I appreciate that. Like a little more specifics, but that's fine. The next one we got was from someone named Bursar Escort who says 'everything is very open with a clear description of the issues'. Yeah, I don't. Thank you. We'll just we'll just go ahead and move on. Erotique comments again, thank you very much for the twofer. 'Sorry for your loss. Remember, remember...' guys, this is for all of us 'remember, always stopping during Girl Scout cookie time and trick or treating will be greatly missed'. Thank you Erotique. Thanks. We will be, yeah, we'll take that for discussion. Yeah, the next one comes from someone named Tampon Insertion Galleries and it says it says 'I cut a movie into 10 parts and upload it to YouTube. I only had uploaded two parts by the time I got a copyright notice how can I upload movies without it getting deleted?' Leave it to Tampon Insertion Galleries to actually have what seems to be like the formation of a legitimate question there. But it does sound maybe to me like you're trying to upload movies that you didn't make. Am I guessing that right? So my advice would be stop that. Don't do that. You're getting stopped because basically all the forces of the entire internet are aligned against keeping you from uploading other people's movies. So stop it. And finally Escort Bayan, a lot of escorts here, this one it's got some substance here, some unusual words so just hang in there 'sirloin meatball capicola salami gel t bone hamburger shank beef pork belly prosciutto tenderloin lamb danker'. So there you have it. We appreciate all of that feedback. But we'd love to hear maybe some machinima speak, specific feedback from some actual, from some actual human beings would be awesome. And we invite you to do that through the voicemail feature we have on our website through Reverb.chat, email obviously, we have a Discord server, which actually that's where Alexo came in and gave his feedback. Any channel that you can reach us please, for God's sake, please, save us, no more Tampon Insertion Galleries. I can't take it. So please, if you could just that name is like so disgusting. I'm like getting I'm actually starting to get a little nauseous. Just Okay, so please, please help us. Please save us. Some real feedback will be awesome. Thank you. 

Ricky Grove 41:15

I think that if Tampon Insertion Galleries change their name, YouTube would accept their videos. That's the reason why they're being rejected. I mean, that somebody in India, some intelligent and viable person whose...

Phil Rice 41:35

Do you think its a translate error, you think...?

Tracy Harwood 41:36

Yeah, was just thinking it could be a translation error, couldn't it? What would it be in real terms? 

Phil Rice 41:42

Okay, mom? I'm not sure. Anyway, I think we should probably not venture into that. This is a family show. You know, Erotic Escorts, and, yeah, Insertion Galleries thank you. But we like to hear from people. Well, thank you very much for that. Phil.

Ricky Grove 42:01

That was enlightening. So that's our news. That's our news show. Our next podcast is going to be on our films of the week in which Phil, Ricky, Tracy and Damien are going to share their film picks for the week and we'll also have an interview with Slovo Strangeovich the artist formerly known as M Dot Strange. We also cut a video from that interview, which we'll share with you as well. So thank you very much for listening this time, we'll see you next time. Bye bye.

Ricky Grove 42:38

Intro music was created by Phil Rice, sound effects were from Valve's Half Life 2 video and closing music is the Hip Hop Beat by The OJT from Freesound.org. Thank you for listening.